Loco detection

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Graskie

I am trying... my wife can confrm that ;-)

I am limited where I can fish, so many places don't cater for anyone with mobility problems but, my wife and myself drove round and found odd ones with odd pegs and thats what I do to relax. I can't fish where I want but I can fish some places and it helps.

So I am retired and busy as ever, fishing, trains, computers and a fishing blog to help create a better awareness of fisheries that cater for disabled/mobility problems.  I should be relaxing but, I do relax when I fish, the rest is keeping going to keep my mind occupied and off health issues and pain. 

Not to worry there is always someone worse off, I am still hear ;-)

Thanks for your kind comments Graskie.

[PJ_model_trains]

OK guys, back on to the topic.

What was the subject, Loco Detection, no one detected it yet  LOL

[Fishmanoz]

Despite giving PJ a laugh, and that's worth it for a start, I think we've found a tear in the space time continuum. 

You can see what I mean by getting out of this thread Ray back to the forum, then go to page 3 of it and you'll find a thread with the name none other then Loco Detection, with some 294 posts and not used for the last 3 months. Now click on it and, like you pointed out, you find yourself back in this thread with less then 30 posts!

Time for some forum feedback. 

[St1ngr4y]

Aha I see what you mean - I thought you were having an aussie moment!   :-)

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

No, but the forum is!

I've reported this in Forum feedback. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Thanks for the laugh, that was good for a start ;-)

I think it best to stay in this topic as it is less the 50% off topic the other is @#!^ more off topic.

To take some words from months ago. All these discussions for loco detection and we don't know when it is coming LOL.

[Yelrow]

PJ, Hi, its not when its coming, its going to be the cost.Most of us will find it a cost too far, john

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi John

I agree, they shouldn't have built up hopes by saying it was coming before they knew they could deliver. For me the bubble has burst, I have lots to do with the layout and am continuing with them. 

Had Loco Detection been avaialble within two month of all the talk I would have grabbed it straight away but, as they say, if you haven't had something, you didn't need it. It is down to the 'wants' and 'needs' even before the cost.

I am hoping to get some tests done tomorrow whilst the boards are up-ended. Make sure all points and decoders are set and working. Then at weekend get someone to lay it out again for me and play.  (And test the lighting so far) And play LOL

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, the reason I wanted to continue on the other thread is that it has all the detail on the hardware - the part holding the system up while we wait for it to be patented - and the software - the part HRMS has told us recently is already in RM and the programming possibilities of which we had discussed too. 

Until Admin fixes it so we can get to that other thread, we can't access any of that important and useful info.   It's fine for us who were around when we were having those discussions but the new guys haven't seen it. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishy, I was joking ;-)

I remember the discussions well, a lot of useful information in there (if we get loco detection)

Maybe they are holding back due to not delivering the product yet and not having a date for it? Possible.

Maybe they will make it available WHEN loco detection is available. Possible.

Maybe they think some have left the forum and are not interested now so let it start all over again. Doubtful.

Maybe they think there was a lot of chit chat in there and there would be less if we had the product and then started to discuss it in detail as people play with it. Very probable.

So we may never see it Fishy but keep trying there was good information in there.

[PJ_model_trains]

You all seem to be doing well to get me involved again  ;-)

[Fishmanoz]

Had an idle look around the Invicto/Powerpos website the other night. It has a lot of coverage of general info on RM etc. 

The really interesting bit is LD. It says that LD will be able to not just detect locos but will also know their direction of travel, speed and whether they are accelerating or decelerating.

 Now we know that all the speed and direction/acceleration info is already contained in the throttle and some have written off its coming from the LD system for this reason. But having the info there is not the same as the system being able to use it. The fact that the system can use it tells us something about the power of LD. We knew that we would be able to do different things depending on which loco has been detected but it will not only be that, we will also be able to do those things conditionally based on which direction and how fast it is going. 

To me, it seems like the system is going to be well worth the wait. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Interesting Fishy

We know LD will detect when a train passes a signal (turn signal Red), and the end of the train or last carriage (change additional signals). 

I raised a question regarding signalling, that if signals down the line were R, Y, YY, G then one of the latter signals could be turned green 'after' another train has turned it to Red.

If LD can detect accelerating or decelerating, it can detect movement, therefore we should then, with the software, be able to say, change signals to R, Y, YY, G down the line but if movement is detected remain Red. (LD instruction overriding a signal instruction) We will have to see how it works and whether this only works with a train moving and not if stationary. (Station or signal)

LD will come, LD will be good, but I cannot see it coming, even if it was available now, until HRMS get everything working correctly with 1.56 & Pro. Particularly signalling and including feathers.

Thanks for the info. Fishy.

PJ

[96RAF]

There is still a lot of old forum stuff that can be found using the forum search box.

As a reminder to older hands and/or as info to newcomers these are the prices for the loco detection system when it was announced late 2013 and posted on RM Web.

Railmaster Loco Detection System
R8306 Pack contains: LD Module, 1Pk LD Tag Strips, 4 x LD Track sensors. £79.99
R8307 LD Module £69.99
R8308 LD Track Sensor £ 7.50
R8309 LD Tag Strip £ 9.99
R**** LD Track Sensor Transformer £ 9.99

As John stated earlier it may be an expense too far for some people especially after paying out for RM-PRO.

The starter pack, although seemingly good value versus unit prices, plus a transformer and maybe USB cables will make a large hole in a 100 pound (Eur125) note.

What is unclear is how many sensors a module will handle, hence how many of these costly modules (plus a transformer each) a large layout would need.

[PJ_model_trains]

Good morning RAF96

I have just searched this data and copied to clipboard ready to add in this thread, to find you have just done so! Thank you  ;o)

I was doing so as a reminder as you have done but, also a reminder for me to cost it out. 

Even I am getting a shock and I have just blown over £500 on signals! I need to sit down and work this out!

PJ

[RB51]

Surely not blown PJ? May I suggest invested? R-

[Fishmanoz]

RAF, that info is available too. Somewhere it says something just over 100 tags active in the system at any one time with 48 detectors for each LD module and up to 2 modules. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hello R

You may say invest  ;o)  Thank you

It was the sudden shock of the cost of LD, I have 26 sensors noted on my layout, 16 plus sidings!

Now who was it that has a load of gold bars. I wonder if he has any spare...   LOL

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Thanks Fishy

100 tags @ £9.99

48 detectors @ £7.50

Total £x

Where x = win on the lottery.

May be LD stands for LoaDed  ;-)

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

Clearly he has spare gold or he wouldn't be into model rsilway. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Graskie... Gold Finger.

Well he has his gold bars and has Bond-ed with his trains.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

We can only hope...

Sensors and tags are sold in 1's, 4's and 10's discounted for quantity

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

26 was my minimum

I fully expected adding ones between the block markers for speed control so could have envisaged at least 40 sensors. 

Then there will be tags, one on front and rear of a train/tender (in case it runs on its own) One on the last carriage, truck or guards van. (maybe more than one moving/mixing rolling stock).

Back to the drawing board as they say.

PJ

[RDS]

Does anyone know if the patent (or patents) has actually been applied for yet.  

If not, I suspect we maybe years away from LD.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi RDS

HRMS know but will they say?

I thought from previous discussions they had applied for the patents, I am pretty sure they will have as they need to get the idea in and get it patented as soon as possible. 

But, even if they had, even if it was produced, we wouldn't be told that as they have numerous items to sort first. There are a number of us that have reported problems that affect everyone, there are supposed to be a number of items in Rev 10 when it comes but, will they have solved the R, Y, YY, G problem where R&G are showing wrong colour aspects down the line? Will we have control for feather signals? Will other issues be solved that have been reported be in the next revision, we hope so. As for the R, Y, YY, G issue, because the green is red, I have had to set signals to Yellow for now, so it means almost every signal ends up Yellow!

Trouble is we can't make plans, they have given us signals (paid for in Pro) but we are restricted to how much we can control manually due to sequences LD will do for us. 

Maybe HRMS will confirm the patent has been applied for, but I wouldn't expect anything else. It would be nice to see LD before Christmas but if not it could be a long time.

Lets see if we get an update from HRMS

PJ