Loco detection

[RDS]

Hi PJ

I have searched the UK Patent website and I cannot find any mention of any patent being applied for by Hornby or Powerpos or Invicto.  It may of course by applied for under a different company name but I don't know how that would work.

I have also tried searching, without success, for various words that may be associated with LD.

I hope I am wrong but I suspect the Patent has not been applied for yet.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi RDS

I am sure there will an answer, they have worked hard to rebuild confidence in Hornby products, surely something like this won't under mine all that hard work. It would upset to many people, to many customers.

They wouldn't risk, their eurika moment, having a chance to get in the hands of others and them patenting it.

PJ

[96RAF]

That may not be enough for many people.

2 modules may be an unacceptable limit see *.

100 active tags limit OK if ID numbers >100 are recognised - see **.

* If you want more than a single sensor (entry or exit) in a detectable 'block' then 2 modules is a finite stopper (2 x 48 = 96 sensors max on 2 module layout). Shame the modules couldn't have a master USB link and be daisy chained loconet style (e.g. Lenz/Digitrax), then maybe many more modules could have been used.

**Then say a minimum of head and tail tags on a train (limit of 50 trains would need a biggish layout and/or storage yard). By active I take it they also mean no duplicate tags on track at any one time or will the system actually recognise tag IDs >101 but can only process up to 100.

[walkingthedog]

I love it when you have big discussions about something that doesn't exist. Keep it up chaps, it's better than Prime Ministers Question Time. 

Have any of you thought about how the DCC flowing water system works?

[Cronan]

I can't really see the point of loco detection you more or less got it with dcc anyway in rm it tells you which speed and direction the loco is traveling as for signals I would of thought that's track detection. It will only be good if it could detect a faulty loco or a derailment or if they got pictures showing you where the train is on the track also hasn't another brand R*cc* with their z2* has something similar?

[idlemarvel]

They might be applying for an EU patent as they don't just operate in UK (Joeuf, Rivarossi, etc).

[idlemarvel]

RM knows which speed and direction it has told the loco to go, but not what speed and direction it is actually going, and it certainly doesn't know where the loco is.  You can simulate track detection (or block occupancy detection) by having loco detectors at the beginning and end of blocks, which saves you having to re-lay your track to include lots of electrically isolated sections with individual power feeds.  This is not a new concept and other suppliers provide solutions with infra red detectors for example.  This usually requires integration of multiple supplier's equipment, which is fun for some but an anathema for others.  The hope is Hornby will provide an integrated solution which can be applied relatively easily to existing layouts.  Eventually.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi idlemarvel

Surely they would need a world patent?

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi WTD

We love to keep you entertained ;o) 

Anything is better that PM question time!

Answer to your last statement... it is a direct current! No electric so no charge!!!  Ermmm

PJ

[Graskie]

Sorry, but, even with my pile(s) of gold bullion, I am way behind the curve. I still need to implement RM point control, never mind signals. Also programming train activity, let alone LD, are probably way off and will need to be sorted by my heirs, unless they decide to flog the lot off rather than go to that bother.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hello Graskie

Oh gold bullion, sorry I just read... even with my pile(s)   LOL

You got lots of trains and lots with sounds Graskie, no one has it all.

And you can't 'flog it' off, you can only flog a dead horse.

I am way behind the curve! I am still thinking about this ;o)

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Blimey

An updated forum coming

RM 1.57 coming

What more could we want?

Start you list now.................

 

STOP!!!!!     I was just joking  ;o)

Some one just gave me a signal!!! 

PJ

[Graskie]

No, I had my piles elasticated a few years ago, so they just drop out, PJ.

I'm afraid the English phrase "to flog something off" is a quaint and archaic English expression of which you might not be aware in your location.

To me, you're way ahead of the curve on your railway and have my full admiration for what you seem to have achieved in such a short period of time.

[PJ_model_trains]

That is very kind Graskie, thank you.

I am not going down the health and disability route as you are partly aware, lets just say I have learnt, I must keep my mind active it helps me over ride some of the issues. Hence the reason I have done so much to the layout but, I need to play more and enjoy the scenery (Not bad for this time of night eh)

I can say however, I don't need elasticating, mine already drop out.

Got to go, my train doesn't give two hoots. I thought that was the owl?

PJ

[idlemarvel]

I don't think there is such a thing as a world patent.  US and EU are the main ones, as a) that's where the markets are in which you want to protect your product from illicit copies and b) that's where the lawyers are who feed off the system.  Cynical, moi?

[Graskie]

What about the Far East ripping things off then?

[Fishmanoz]

For me it's a case of publish and be damned, which in this context means get it to market as quickly as you can because, patents or no, the competition will be hot on your heals.  The mere fact that they've published the general capability of their LD system means that others, now aware it can be done, are figuring out their own way of doing it. The ethical will be doing it so as to not infringe on any patents. The Far East simply won't care. 

And remember the whole system is to be integrated into RM anyway.  How anyone else can compete with that I don't know.  They would have to be one of the competing systems for a start.  Even JMRI users will have difficulty as they won't know the interface specification.

So the sooner it!s out there, the better off they will be. They'll get more sales and an established LD reputation before anyone can catch up. Where they are right now is just giving the competition a leg up. 

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi idlemarvel

I was not aware of how patents work, US, EU or World.

Having confirmed this as US & EU I can see how China doesn't give a damb and will copy anything leaving it to the purchaser when reselling to justify the item.

Thanks for confirming

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Spot on Graskie but, it is not the far East that are ripping things off, they will has I said to idlemarvel, copy anything, leaving down to the purchaser/re-seller to justify or deal with.

Is China wrong? Some would say yes but, it is not a world law so they are probably not wrong. The some times greedy, devious, reseller, especially one buying from China and selling direct to the public is the risk taker.

Some will even calculate the risk, how much can I make before I pay in court and by then they have made far more than court costs.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Spot on Fishy,

It is not hard for someone, with technical knowledge, to come up with something similar. All the different model railway packages on the market work and process data differently so at the end of the day a slightly different sensor is all they need.

Hornby should move on this for their own good, they now that, hence the reason, I think, that HRMS are doing everything to get the latest software up and running and into the market. 

LD 'should' be on the market before Christmas to hit the peak season sales, we can only wait and be patient. The longer they take the bigger the risk for them.

PJ

[Graskie]

I don't need loco detection. I can see where they are!

[PJ_model_trains]

[quote]Another company has already annouced they are just about to release a train detection system that works on dcc. If Hornby dont hurry up they wont be the leaders but the followers. By having a world of testers we can evolve the product quicker and keep Hornby in front. Look at Railmaster how quick are we on V9 because the public has tested different configurations. Patents may be stopping this but someone will just look at it a different way and build something that is just as good. Hurry Up[/quote] Sorry Phul007 just a correction RailMaster v1.56 Revision 9 with v1.57 due any day. Yes Hornby, Loco Detection is needed for your own good as soon as possible. We know that is why you are working flat out to get 1.56 plus revisions updated. Hopefully all the problems will be corrected with the next version and the items missed in 1.56 like signal feathers. The only key card you have is it works with RM but, there are lots of good software on the market with lots of their customers helping advance their system. We look forward to RM 1.57 and Loco Detection Thank you PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

[quote]I don't need loco detection. I can see where they are! We understand Graskie Some will want it, some won't, some will buy it later. It isn't that we can see the loco's, it is the things it will do 'automatically' when programmed to help us run our trains easier. We will still be in control but hopefully better control. Watch and wait Graskie, see how we deal with teething problems and understanding then see if it is for you. If not, no problem, it won't be for everyone. I couldn't cope with 50+ trains with sound... LOL but may be 60 + ;o) PJ[/quote]

[96RAF]

[quote]Another company has already annouced they are just about to release a train detection system that works on dcc.[/quote] You are allowed to say which 'other company' that is Phul. Saves us and Hornby having to Google for it. After all Hornby R&D should be keeping tabs on the opposition, whoever they may be.

[idlemarvel]

Nice clue at the end of your first sentence Phul! :-)