TTS Flying Scotsman

[OzzyTrains]

Hi everyone,

I own a RailRoad Flying Scotsman and I would like to upgrade it to TTS sound however the socket is in the tender and it doesn't have an electrical connection to the main body.

I was wondering whether I will need to solder in a connection (or use a different method) for it to work and if so, how would I do that?

Thanks,

Harry

[Chrissaf]

Harry,

The FS is one of Hornby's most manufactured models with many variants. To help us to help you we really need the R number of your model. For example the linked page below, is Hornby's own 'How to install a decoder' page for the R2675 RailRoad FS [basic decoder not sound]. This document seems to indicate that this particular RailRoad FS version doesn't have a socket in the loco nor the tender. Can you be sure that the tender you have with a socket is the correct one for your loco.

R2675 RailRoad Flying Scotsman – Hornby Support

[ColinB]

If it has a socket in the tender then surely it must have a connection to the main loco. What might have happened is the person that owned it before (I am assuming you bought it second hand) broke the 4 way plug that connects loco to tender and just wired the loco internally using the broken leads. You might need to buy a 4 pin lead and reinstate the connection from loco to tender, then fitting sound is quite straight forward. The only other thing might be, that someone has added a different tender, so you have two sockets one in the loco and one in the tender. Putting the sound in the tender is such a good idea as there is more room and less chance of damaging the valve gear or decoder trying to squeeze the TTS sound decoder into the loco area.

[OzzyTrains]

I bought it brand new a few years back in the R1167 Flying Scotsman train set.

The tender isn't connected to the main loco by any wires, it just has a little plastic bit that hooks into the main loco. I had a look at the instructions and it said that it had a speaker housing in the tender for TTS. The only thing is that the instructions might just be generic and I need to somehow connect the tender to the loco.

[OzzyTrains]

Here is a picture which I grabbed off the web. It's a bit difficult to see but I've circled the little plastic connector. Hopefully this narrows it down a bit.

[ColinB]

It sounds like it is Hornby using up spare parts. Turn the tender upside down and see if you have a 4 pin socket on the underside . If so you could buy a 4 pin lead and wire it to the loco so that loco and tender are connected together (pins 1 and 4 to pickups, pins 2 and 3 to motor), then you can put the sound decoder in the tender. If it does not have the socket, then hopefully there is a DC ready socket is in the loco. There is just enough room on these locos to fit the TTS decoder in the loco, but you will have to buy a small "sugar cube" speaker to replace the Hornby supplied one, which won't fit. Or you could put the decoder in the loco and runs leads to the speaker in the tender.

[Going Spare]

What makes you think the DCC socket is in the tender rather than on the loco chassis? Have you opened the tender to confirm its position? If you refer to Service Sheet 380B which covers the loco in set R1167, you will see the socket is shown on the loco chassis. As the tender has no pick-ups, there is no need for an electrical connection between loco and tender. Further, the tender has no provision for a speaker. You will have to squeeze both decoder and speaker in the loco body unless you create an electrical connection to the tender as Colin suggests and probably modify the tender weight to increase the space available within that body. The Service Sheet is accessible via the Support & Advice drop-down menu, then selecting Product Support and Service Sheets, Hornby.

[96RAF]

Edit - GS posted as I was compiling my reply.

Now we have the R number (R1167) of the set we can confirm the service sheet required i.e. SS380. The actual loco in the set is listed as R3086.

As you can see there should be a drawbar (circled) to connect the tender to the loco and the tender does not have electrics - no plug/socket or pickups.

Options

1. extend the speaker wires into the tender and plant the speaker in its enclosure facing up onto of the tender weight.
2. swap the speaker for a cube or smaller speaker and place it in the loco front end.

You could also refer to my extended guide for more info

http://www.halton96th.org.uk/ttsdownload.html

[RDS]

Within the last few days, I have bought a new Hornby Flying Scotsman 'type' A3 Loco.

It is part number R3312 and on this model, the Decoder socket is in the Tender. The Tender is connected to the Loco with 4 wires.

[ColinB]

What you can do if you want to, put the electronics in the tender (good idea as much more room and less to damage when you squeeze it back together). Do what I did with my Tornado. I searched Peters spares for the latest tender bottom that will fit (check tender top location screws) then basically swapped all the bits from the old tender to the new tender bottom and added an electrical connection to the loco. The main reason I like putting the electronics in the tender, is in the early days of fitting decoders I blew up a couple of decoders as they touched something as I tried to squeeze them in and on another broke the valve gear as my focus was to not catch any of the wires. In these days where valve gear spares are hard to come by, I would rather lower the risk by not taking the loco apart unless I absolutely have to.

[RDS]

.... fitting decoders I blew up a couple of decoders as they touched something as I tried to squeeze them in .....

 

 

I always put the Decoder in Heat shrink sleeve (NOT adhesive lined), left open at both ends and only shrunk down just enough to stop the Decoder from sliding out.

[Howbi]

This is the Flying Scotsman from the R1167 set with a basic decoder fitted. The TTS decoder is slightly larger which is not a problem as it will easily fit in the smokebox space but precise measurement will be required to get a 'sugar cube' speaker to fit.

[OzzyTrains]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

There certainly seems to be quite a few options.

If I were to extend the speaker wires into the tender and plant the speaker in its enclosure facing up onto of the tender weight. Would anyone be able to share a link with some instructions as this appears to be the least challenging method of installing the TTS. Otherwise, if I were to plant a sugar cube speaker in the main loco, where would I find one and what wires would need to be replaced?

[ColinB]

.... fitting decoders I blew up a couple of decoders as they touched something as I tried to squeeze them in .....

I always put the Decoder in Heat shrink sleeve (NOT adhesive lined), left open at both ends and only shrunk down just enough to stop the Decoder from sliding out.

 

 

I do that, but is is just so much easier putting it all in the tender. You can still slice a wire as you line up the body with the chassis, and not know anything about it, until too late. I once broke a Merchant Navy's valve gear ( not very difficult to do) trying to squeeze a TTS decoder in. I was more worried about not slicing a wire than what else was touching the chassis. Obviously Hornby and Bachmann came to same conclusion as most of their decoders are now in the tender.

[96RAF]

Standard speaker wires extended to mount it in the tender of Mallard on the weight facing up.

Cube speaker mounted on the chassis frame of a Merch Navy, with decoder up in the smoke box.

[DonnyRailMan]

I have just recently fitted TTS to the current Railroad Flying Scotsmen with decoder in locomotive body. I bought a Sugercube speaker from Roads and Rails I just cut off the Hornby round speaker wired new speaker to decoder and placed it literally in chimney of Flying Scotsmen.

[96RAF]

Unless your soldering skills are up to it the recommended advice is NOT to disconnect the speaker wires at the decoder, but to do this at the speaker end and either solder on your new speaker or extend the wires as required first.

If you are re-using the the existing speaker then cut the wires at a convenient place for routing in the loco and splice in a new length of extension wire.

Be aware when soldering speakers that their magnet can grab your hot soldering iron which can damage the speaker. I tape my speakers to the bench when soldering to them.

[DonnyRailMan]

Actually I did not solder the wires together , I wrapped the wires together then put insulation tape over join.

At time could not find soldering iron .