Unusual Track Formation

[96RAF]

Spotted this on a local north east FB site.

A haulage incline at Pelton Fell seen from “BustyBridge”, originally built as part of the Stanhope and Tyne Railway (opened 1834). In later years the line was incorporated into the NER as the Pontop and South Shields Branch. Goods traffic only.

Notice the trap points on the outer lines, the twin track into the distance shares a common centre rail making for a novel Y point to the centre near track.

[Brew Man]

Looks like whoever engineered that enjoyed a challenge thinking_face

[LCDR]

The track is like this to permit rope haulage working so that wagons coming up could be detached and wagons going down could be attached to the rope. There were many such features in Durham and Northumberland, alas all now gone apart from a couple of derelict examples at Springwell on the Bowes Railway.

[M. Matthews]

The track is like this to permit rope haulage working so that wagons coming up could be detached and wagons going down could be attached to the rope...............

 

 

Would you be able to expand on that? I'm genuinely interested but don't quite understand what you mean.

 

 

[ellocoloco]

For rope haulage I would guess the shared tracks separate mid-way up to allow the wagons to pass each other. I wonder how long a rope section can be?

Its certainly a fascinating picture.

[96RAF]

Coal was sent to the docks in tubs (short tipping wagons) and these were rigged in rakes hauled by ropes and a stationary steam engine, such that the full tubs would descend the gradient by gravity to be tipped down chutes into colliers (coastal coal ferries) and by dint of a pulley system haul the empty tubs up slope for refilling.

The ropes (wire cables) ran in pulleys twixt the rails to reduce friction and wear.

This page explains the various methods used.

http://gujaratmining.blogspot.com/2017/10/rope-haulage-notes.html

[JJ73]

Hello Raf

It looks similar to the High Peak Trail (Track now Long gone!!!) The Cromford & High Peak Railway was 1 of the 1st Railways in the world - built between 1825 & 1830!!! A distance of 33 miles between Peak Forest Canal & the Cromford Canal. On the flat section, the wagons were pulled by horses, On the steep inclines - large Steam Powered beam engines in 'engine houses' pulled the wagons using cables up & down the inclines!!! The Railway was adapted over the years but finally closed in 1967!!! Here is a photo below just to show the 'catchment' if a wagon came lose & would be diverted into the catchment where it would crash into!!! 😮🚂🚂🚂

[threelink]

Hi JJ. There is (or was the last time I looked) a crumpled up wagon in the catch pit at the bottom of the incline at the Cromford wharf end of the C&HPR. Apparently the catch pits were introduced after a raft of wagons ran away, leaped over the canal at Cromford, over the Midland Railway line beyond it and ended up in a field the other side of the railway. Heaven only knows what speed they must have been doing to fly so far. There was, about half way up the incline from Cromfod wharf, a huge pit with substantial timber framing and a large wrought iron spoked wheel - something to do with the haulage ropes, I guess. I spent a fascinating few hours crawling about in it trying to work out what it did and how but that was well over 35 years ago and I think it has gone now. The modelling devil that lurks on my shoulder has challenged me more than once to make a working model of a rope hauled incline. So far I have chickened out - a retirement project, maybe.

[malB]

For those interested in seeing these style lines in action. If you look on YouTube, you'll find an assortment of clips of amongst others the Bowes Railway in it's preserved form and a Feature by Amber Films made in 1974 just before the last rope work section closed. They are really quite interesting and make you wonder what the evil "Elf & Safety" people of today would make of the suggesting building/operating such lines today....... All very clever,especially the "self acting" inclines. They are where the full waggons are at the top and empties the bottom. Using a "return wheel" so both ends of the rope go down the bank.You'd hook the end at the top to the fulls and the other to the empties and use the extra weight to hal the empties up the bank.

[threelink]

This is a bit off topic but malB's spelling of waggon with 2 gs reminds me that there is another fascinating relic of railway pre-history on the C&HPR. About half way between Middleton Top and Minninglow there is a waggon boiler half buried in an embankment. The waggon boiler was a half way house between a haysatck boiler and a Cornish boiler (the one with a single firetube, as used on Trevithick's Pen y Darren loco). The waggon boiler had no fire tube but the bottom was formed as an inverted U shape to increase the area exposed to the heat of the fire and the lower sides were pinched in to allow return flues to direct heat to the sides, giving the whole boiler a tumlehome. There are very few left and this one is remarkable for being in its original location. It served a winding house powering ropes on a line into a quarry. The railway was re-graded, the quarry siding closed, the engine house demolished and the new main line embankment built over it. The boiler remained in situ, embedded in the embankment. It's still there, slowly rotting away, and well worth a look. The name "waggon" boiler came from its shape, its waisted appearance being popularly considered to resemble the shape of the old Wild West prairie schooner waggons.

[JJ73]

@ 3'Link :- Yes Your right about the "a crumpled up wagon in the catch pit" again like me (or was the last time I looked) which was quite a few yrs ago now!!! WOW about them 'Flying Wagons!!!' don't quite understand how they could of gone 'OVER' the Canal without going in!!! I remember seeing something similar "a huge pit with substantial timber framing and a large wrought iron spoked wheel" at the top of the hill (I think) - interesting!!!🤔🚂🚂🚂

[threelink]

Hi JJ. I share your puzzlement about the flying wagons but the reports I have read are very clear. It may be that the track layout was different then. The CHPR is a fascinating line for those with a taste for early railway history, or even more recent. I would love to model the bit round the quarry that was a WW2 bomb store, setting it during the war years.

[Rana Temporia]

Someone once made a model of a working rope hauled incline, I think it was in Model railway Constructor years ago. The rope was steel and the wagons had an electromagnet under them that was energised by power to the track on the incline which was fed through metal wheels on the wagons. As the wagons were propelled to the top of the incline they would pick up the power, the magnet would attach to the rope and then they would be taken down to the bottom where they would leave the powered section and come free from the rope, the same on the up side.

Stationary steam engines and inclines were used in a lot of places. On the Bolton and Leigh Railway there were inclines at Daubhill and Chequerbent on the main line until the railway was diverted via a much less steep route. Mine subsidence at Chequerbent led to some new very steep sections before the line was closed.

There were a lot of inclines in the Welsh slate industry and there is one east of Haslingden in Lancashire. Some of the Welsh inclines used water and gravity to provide a source of power.

[threelink]

Interesting, RT. There were also narrow gauge rope worked inclines on many Welsh lead mines, some of them scarily steep and all bar a few powered by waterwheels - there's a modelling challenge if ever there was! There were even a few underground inclines worked by underground waterwheels or Pelton wheels.

The magnetic rope attachment is ingenious but I have just perfected a way of coupling wagons fitted with three link couplings at the pull of a lever and I am sure the system could be adapted to pick up a rope on an incline. I think I shall have to try a small model to see how it goes.

Has anyone else modelled a rope worked incline or seen a model of one?

[Rana Temporia]

Threelink, I forgot the lead mines! I helped grout one up in North Wales years ago near Holywell. There is an interesting one on the opposite side of the Conwy valley to Llanrwst which is fairly intact and built on the steep side of the hill, it probably had at least one incline, it’s a while since I’ve been. I think it’s Hafna Mine but there are a few mines and shafts in the area.

Interesting things about lead mines is even if they are hundreds of years old the spoil heaps are usually devoid of vegetation due to the toxicity. Lead is also often found with other toxic metals such as Barium which had no value so was also tipped. Easy to model, no static grass needed.

[threelink]

Hi, RT. I have spent countless happy hours prowling about the lead mines of mid Wales but never as far north as Conwy or Holywell. It sounds fascinating. The Manchester and Milford Railway had a grandiose/crackpot scheme to run their main line up the Ystwyth valley and tunnel deep beneath the mountains to get inland. Not surprisingly they ran out of money, which is why the line up from Milford deviates suddenly at Strata Florida and veers off west to terminate miserably in Aberystwyth (or did so before it was all ripped up on the orders of Dr Beeching).They never did get anywhere near Manchester but I have always thought that a "might have been" model of the Ystwyth valley line running past the enormous Cwmystwyth lead mine would be a belter. The Cwmystwyth mine is the only one I know of to have had a tennis court - the grass is still there among the toxic waste dumps. It was laid out by the mine manager in the early 1900s for his daughters. Well worth a visit if you are in that neck of the woods but watch the dumps - they are getting a bit unstable in parts. The crushed fines from mine dressing mills make excellent model ground cover and wagon loads so long as you don't lick your fingers.

[Rana Temporia]

Three link, if you are looking for lead in the tips the ore is often in the form of Galena or Lead Sulphate PbS which forms cubic crystals like salt but is black. It’s usually quite easy to find and the rock it’s in feels heavier than you’d expect, so don’t use too much as wagon loads unless you are using a Hornby Dublo loco with a 2A power supply. grinning

[threelink]

No worries on that score, RT. The fines are the crushed waste country rock from which the ore has been removed. It's nowhere near so heavy as the untreated metalliferous rock. Although dull grey in its weathered state, galena cleaves to a brilliant shine, especially if it has a high silver content (as some does). A lot of silver was mined in mid Wales - good excuse for bullion vans on the "might have been" line!

[LCDR]

This is a highly complex subject . Anyone interested is strongly recommended to buy or borrow a copy of "Rope and Chain Haulage" by the late Colin Mountford, published by the Industrial Railway Society (Price £29-95) , great bed-time reading!!

[Rana Temporia]

Threelink. I was wondering over the weekend, what would the lead be transported on if by rail and in what form? I’m assuming ingots of some type on low volume wagons as you wouldn’t need a lot of lead to get to 12,14 or 16 imperial tons which is what I would expect the wagons to carry.

I can’t recall seeing wagons specifically to carry lead.

[threelink]

Hi RT. I don't think that there were any specialist wagons for the transport of lead. I am not aware that there was any substantial smelting carried on at the mines themselves. So far as I am aware the Van mine (first British metal mine to achieve a capital value of £1 million) was the only lead mine to have a main line rail connection - the Van branch from Caersws to the mine. The Van had enormous lodes up to 8 feet wide in solid galena. So much ore was extracted that quarries were opened at surface to provide stone to pack the stopes to avoid collapse of the ground. I guess that rail traffic would have comprised gunpowder, grease/oil, candles, coal/coke and timber in and lead ore out using standard open wagons, except for the gunpowder. However I don't know for sure so I shall have to do some research.