Price Increases

[VESPA]

My wallet is now firmly shut. I bought cars years ago for less than some locos. Bye Bye new railway stock. Oh and I have seen Bachmann coaches just short of £100. Time to build a factory here in the UK.

[threelink]

Couldn't agree more, Mr Luigi. Sad to read that the never ending increase in prices stops you buying - as I said in my earlier post, manufacturers beware of pricing yourselves out of the market. Mercifully I see that some train fairs are now scheduled so I can start to collect spare parts and rubbish to reduce the average price of the locos I knock up to something nearer my pre-covid average of £8.00 a throw. Not museum quality but difficult to distinguish from their modern counterparts at normal viewing distance.

£400.00 a pop for locos and anything up to £100.00 a pop for carriages my be affordable for some but, I suspect, not for the majority - especially mean old men like me, and doubly so in light of the quality control issues highlighted in various recent posts eg mazak rot - frankly unforgivable in this day and age.

[96RAF]

I have to agree.

I may well be able to afford new stuff but I certainly cannot justify buying it when it is a like it but not a needed item.

I shall make do and mend what I have, given I can get the bits for them.

Far too often Marketing sets the prices without much thought as to what the current market will actually bear. I have seen this in so many industries where the hoped for selling price bears little resemblance to the price to market cost. Anything with a price that ends in £xxx.99p is a made up figure that is likely rounded up to the next tenner less a penny; such product to be avoided at all cost.

[ColinB]

As I have stated earlier Hornby have probably got additional costs because of Shipping, cost of components (the price of plastic has been going up) and even the cost of Chinese labour is more. Probably seeing that they have been having issues meeting the demand for their new locos, that now was the time for a substantial increase. I do hope that marketing, seeing the figures for last year, don't think that the rise in demand will continue. Otherwise I think they have a big shock coming. Bachmann do the same, it is just that they have the sense to realise that if a product doesn't sell, they allow the retailers to set it at a price where it will.

[bill7437]

How to ruin a hobby by placing it into all but the realms of the very rich.

[Twintop]

I have also likely bought my last new locomotive as I can't justify spending going on for £200 for an engine, although there are several that I would like. I have over 50 anyway and they will do fine as being well into my sixties they will last me I would think ! Having said that, a box shifter has recently e-mailed with details of a Hornby K1 for £74 and so I am a little tempted by that.

I have also noticed that used locos on a box shifters website seem expensive, so that route is unlikely too.

Coaches are a price too now and so as I have about 90 already, I don't really need any more, but might buy an odd one such as a Hornby Mk1 RFB or the new MK 1 BCK that seem reasonably priced. Quite happy running my Tri-ang Mk1s around and may get a restaurant car in maroon as I don't have one of them and maybe some more sleepers as I only have one of those. However, even those are pricey at £24 for boxed examples.

I am on with equipping some of my Tri-ang Mk1s with new Hornby wheels, but the wheels themselves have also shot up - I am sure they were £16.25 for a pack of 10 wheelsets just the other week, and they are now £19.65.

[ColinB]

I suppose the thing is as long as you don't want the latest and greatest, then it isn't in the realms of the rich. As long as Hornby don't force retailers to stop discounting old stock then if you wait, quite often you can get a loco relatively cheap. The bigger issue at the moment is the greed of the secondhand merchants. I was round my loco model shop and noticed he had a secondhand Hornby Arriva class 67 for sale for more than what I paid for the same model new off Hereford Model Centre a month ago. Admittedly, Hereford Model Centre seem to always have old stock at reasonable prices, but it just shows that buying second hand is not always cheaper. After all the fuss with preorders, unless you desperately want that model, it appears it is better to wait. Of course if at the new prices Hornby models don't sell (and remember there is only a finite number of stupidly rich people), then there will be even more to pick up discounted.

[96RAF]

My local model shop is still selling new Hornby, Bachmann and other makes at well below RRP, in fact their prices are commensurate with the major box shifters tickets.

[ColinB]

Mine charges recommended retail, then complains he doesn't sell any locos.

[GWR LNER fan 4472]

I have so far only bought one new loco per year (not including gifts) as that's how long it takes for me to save up. Although this year I am in a better job, gone are the days of top express loco models being £120, so it will still probably be just one a year for me. This year it's the Standard 2MT.

I have decided however, that from now on I'm only going to buy rolling stock second hand, and that only when I can see the model rather than using ebay or whatnot. I'm only buying new when it's new tooled exclusive stock such as the pre-grouping 4 wheelers. Mk1s? £7 from the stalls at shows. Goods vans? £5. All with metal wheels too. That's much better compared to the £35 and £20 respectively that some manufacturers are selling them for these days. As has been said already in this thread, so long as it looks decent enough and runs well, I'm happy. Not fussed about super detail handrails on the underframes of wagons to be honest.

With regards to shipping costs, surely there's an argument that moving production back to the UK will greatly decrease the environmental impact too. No doubt the vast majority of Hornby's products are sold to people in the UK, so makes sense to produce them here, if only from an environmental point of view.

[atom3624]

It would definitely decrease environmental impact if shipping is reduced, 'though they're relatively efficient, bearing in mind their sheer size - those container ships.

Conversely, introducing new production facilities without extra care, which is essential nowadays, could have a negative effect on the UK's 'carbon footprint'.

Al.

[threelink]

atom3624 makes a valid point about carbon footprints . I have insufficient knowledge to comment on environmental matters but as a layman it strikes me that, in the long term, manufacturing something that will last (say) 40 years has to have less of an impact than manufacturing the same product with a 10 year life span every 10 years. Might it be said that built-in obsolesence benefits manufacturers at the expense of the environment even on the level of model railways?

[Rana Temporia]

Looking at the waste hierarchy (presumably taught in schools now) with an item we can:

Re-use as intended. Buy second hand existing items, no need for further carbon footprint other than collecting or posting the item and any computer work involved.

Repair. Older locomotives are easy to repair, use standard parts and many are still easily available.

Reduce. Buy less or look for alternatives. Not good for development of new items.

Recycle. I don’t know how much of a loco can be recycled in the facilities available today.

None of the above help Hornby as all reduce the market for their products and if we want models with their associated carbon footprint then they have to last (re-use) or be repairable by the majority of people and the parts need to be available.

As to manufacturing in the UK, the transport would be less and the power more likely to come from a renewable source then in the Far East.

A new factory or a refurbished one would have to meet all current environmental legislation which may or may not contribute to extra costs. However, the costs of the raw materials are likely to continue to increase and there is no saying where they have originated from.

Hornby now own plant across the globe associated with the ranges they have acquired and all now share the same track system. Transport of materials and finished items looks like continuing to be a necessity.

[ColinB]

This is deviating a bit from the subject but up until recently it cost more to "ship" the goods out of the dock than "ship" them halfway across the world. I would like to see the stuff made in the UK, but I can see lots of reasons why it is not possible. Plus once a manager gets it in their brain that it is cheaper in a certain place, it is very difficult to change their mind. Moving production means risk, most managers don't like risk. As to the carbon, I think you can twist that argument anyway you want, the "Greens" used to ride around in 2CVs thinking they were saving the planet, not realising that their emissions were probably dirtier than a heavy truck. If Hornby want to produce things in China then that is ok, but don't come back to the public whining about the cost of Shipping going up, that is part of your calculations when you move your production to a foreign land. Just remember the heaviest polluters are China and the USA, looking at the chart on the BBC we come very low down, so shutting down our industry and riding around in supposedly non polluting cars is not going to make a great deal of difference.

[96RAF]

Never mind Colin it will soon be bonfire night followed by New Year and the UK followed by the rest of the world can blow their emissions budget by filling the skies with pretty pollution. Add into the mix seemingly continuous forrest fires and the odd volcano and paying through the nose for road tax to balance your carbon footprint doesn’t make much sense either.

All these decisions are made far above my pay scale so nothing I can do will ever influence any of them, but they do make for lively discussion, even if left field of the OP topic.

[ColinB]

I know, I just get fed up with people going on about the carbon footprint. If they hadn't of chopped down all the rain forests we wouldn't be in such a state. As to the price rise, surprisingly I seem to have most of the locos I ever want. I think all the issues over the preordering system with Hattons has put me off that idea. If by chance the ones I preordered turn up then good, if not then I will spend the money on better sound decoders for my existing locos.

[atom3624]

Did nobody see the Tokyo Olympics?

Fireworks will become a thing of the past, replaced by ... thousands of drones!!

(They can be programmed, and multi-coloured!)

Al.

[ColinB]

Nop, drones use carbon to make them, then there is the batteries and the paint.

[sxbiker]

I notice that the prices of my pre-orders have all been increased. I have 18 pre-orders some from the 2020 catalogue.

What I am worried about is the fact that the new prices being shown are more expensive that the standard prices shown currently. What are Hornby doing? Do they really want me to cancel all my pre-orders and re-place them?

Examples R40196 Avanti Pendolino my Pre-order price £50.94 - Hornby pre-order price on website £49.49

The same disparity for the Midland Pullman coaches.

The disparity between the Midland Pullman coaches shows a greater disparity, my pre-order price £42.94 - current pre-order price £40.75

Perhaps Hornby are deliberately "trying it on"

I guess this will apply across the board. I think I will cancel and wait for the items to appear in shops and then buy, if I can still afford them.

Mod note - I have added the addendum text from your supplementary post into this one as an edit. This is something you could have done yourself using the edit tool. Tools are in the drop down box accessed by clicking the three vertical dots in your post.

[atom3624]

The possible motives are potentially disturbing.

Are they really 'playing the market'?

Are they really that naïve?

Do they really expect everybody who has a pre-order in to 'cough up' and pay the extra without any loss?

It is understood that costs are increasing - transportation included, as well as equalising manpower costs to some extent, but they should get their act together, and it should be a discussion with those considered responsible enough to distribute their merchandise.

Al.

[Bulleidboy]

Hornby normally honour the price quoted at the time of the pre-order. That's one reason to pre-order with Hornby. Some suppliers want you to pay when you order, Hornby don't ask for payment until they are ready to send out your order.

[DBfan]

Unfortunately Hornby do have any control over costs and are not the only company rising prices. To suggest conspiracy theories is absolutely ridiculous .