Cost of converting from DC to DCC

[Potrail2378]

Hi all,

I have converted around thirty loco's from DC to DCC. I always install directional lights, and (money permitting), sounds.

I have told, and shown a few friends some of my creations. I have been asked to convert a Hornby class 37 from around 1980 to DCC, and how much it would cost.

Considering that the standard Hornby decoder is around the £22 mark, and four directional lights, the DCC socket, wires, and time involved, I said £50 to convert. That, in my eyes was 'mates rates', he laughed and walked away!

Is £50 too much, considering the parts and labour?

Thanks in advance.

[Fishmanoz]

Given this will likely be R751 with a Ringfield motor and no wire going to the LH brush holder (means there is a direct connection to chassis via the holding screw and that this connection must be removed), then price seems reasonable to me.

[ColinB]

I must admit when I do one I don't add up the cost, but working it out that is quite reasonable. Decoder at £20.00 + postage £4.00 (you need something like a Zimo with a higher current limit), socket £5.00. So you are charging him about £20.00 or less for doing the conversion which is at least 1 to 2 hours work, plus you need to add the wire and nylon screws. Hattons etc would charge an awful lot more than that.

Do you know I am clearing out my old tender driven stuff all converted to DCC (mainly chassis) with sockets and they very rarely sell for much. Some people just don't understand how much work goes into doing this stuff.

[96RAF]

I thought your price was fair. You may like to suggest to him he trawls around some of the ‘professional’ convertors to see what their price would be, then you may find he comes back cap in one hand and money in the other. Or you could suggest that as it is obviously a ‘five minute’ job and there are plenty of YT videos to show him how to do he has a go himself.

[Chrissaf]

Your friend may have seen 'decoder fitting' prices on model retailer websites and assumed that those were the going rate. In general, the decoder fitting prices that are quoted at about £30 or less on model retailer websites are prices to fit a decoder at the time of purchase of a model that you are also buying from that same retailer. Thus they are using the fitting the decoder at decoder cost price as a loss leader to make the profit on the model sale. Plus those models will almost certainly be 'DCC Ready' locos and have a socket to use and lights will be factory fitted. Your £50 price is quoted for models circa 1980 and predate 'DCC Ready', fitting lights and decoder sockets into models not factory designed for them will be relatively onerous and time consuming by comparison to 'DCC Ready'. Most shop retailer based fitters are really not interested in that type of work.

[Flashbang]

Why would you charge a friend labour?

As he is also a fellow modeller and you are not in a business of carrying out conversion work as a retailer or specialist is, then surely you should not be charging anyone labour?

If you do so, then IMO it is the sole reason your friend said "No Thanks"!

At the end of the day and if it were myself, it would be up to the owner of the loco who may consider to offer "a drink" for the work, but I would not change anyone.

[ColinB]

But Flashbang you are missing the point, it will cost nearly that amount in bits, in my analysis I forgot about the lights. There is a guy I fix locos for, that I don't charge any labour as I enjoy fixing the locos and I get to see locos I don't have. Since I retired I need to have a challenge. Plus I suppose I know he knows nothing about electrics. Even then the bits can soon mount up. If it was your own loco you can use second hand bits and take a chance. If it is for someone else it has to work and work reliably. Well that is my attitude but looking at the state of some of this guy's locos that have supposedly been fixed previously by a professional repairer, I do wonder. Generally though I never charge labour he does normally add extra to the bill, but that is his choice.

[Flashbang]

Hi Colin

No I'm not missing any point. The OP stated in their last sentence "Is £50 too much, considering the parts and labour?" IMO changing for any Labour is a step too far for a modeller who is not in any business of converting locos, and it was for a friend too!

I agree with you that the cost of parts needed which I guesstimate are around £42 (Decoder £20. 8 pin socket £1.50. Light bars for conversion £19. Wire if needed £2)

But charging labour? Not in IMO! disappointed

[ColinB]

He probably would have baulked at £42. It is actually more, a decent Hornby DCC socket is about £4.50, most of the other ones are not that good other than the guy in Gloucestershire that sells decent ones for just over a £1.00 (he hasn't any at the moment). Then there is the DCC socket holder, plus you are going to have to pay P & P on this stuff probably multiple times as you cannot get it all from the same place.

[Potrail2378]

Flashbang - thanks for the offer. As a 'fellow modeller' I have seven loco's which need converting. I'm happy to 'buy you a drink' for you to convert them 👍

[Brew Man]

If you want my two pen'th, and you probably don't, I think it's OK to charge a small amount for one's time don't jobs for others. After all, time is precious to all of us, and doing jobs for free is asking to be be put upon.

[RDS]

I agree with Flashbang's initial post above, regarding doing work for mates. I would not dream of charging them and in fact it always costs me money.

[Flashbang]

Flashbang - thanks for the offer. As a 'fellow modeller' I have seven loco's which need converting. I'm happy to 'buy you a drink' for you to convert them 👍

 

 

I never made any offer to do anything? Please show exactly where did !

What I very clearly said, was that IMO charging a "Labour fee" is OTT for a private individual carrying out the work and especially as its for an alleged friend and fellow modeller too!

 

 

RDS in the post above has hit the proverbial nail on the head, exactly!

 

 

 

 

Post Edit to correct typo.

[96RAF]

Having said what I did previously I have done plenty of stuff for mates for free and/or at a loss, but this was at my offering, not them asking for assistance.

Something I did in conjunction with my local model shop was to program Train-Tech Smart Screens for customers who bought one there, in exchange for an agreed £-donation to a local charity the shop supports. This could be an option for those loath to quote a price to mates for work done.

[ellocoloco]

@Potbus

£50 sounds spot on for the effort you would be putting in. Sure, the parts might come to £43.67 or something similar but £50 is a nice number people can understand. Your not really charging for labour at that price......

Clearly your 'mate' has no concept of the amount of time you would put into wiring in a decoder and lights and it would appear to me that you got off lightly - he would have probably expected you to come round and adjust all the CVs and 'lend' him a controller!

By all means, give your friends advice and instruction, but let them sort out their own antique locos if they want them chipped. Then £50 will seems pretty attractive...

[Potrail2378]

Flashbang - would love to show you, but some messages have been deleted, somehow...

Ellocoloco - thanks for the input. I reckon I'll bring my mate down to the workshop and let him sit with me while I do the conversion, after letting him buy all the stuff needed. I reckon he'd be happy to pay £6.37 for a nice drink 😉

[Chrissaf]

Flashbang - would love to show you, but some messages have been deleted, somehow...

 

 

No posts have been removed from this thread as far as I am aware. Granted this specific page we are on at first glance appears to have a number of missing posts in the thread, but this is page 2. Any posts that appear to be missing, are likely to be found on page 1. Could it possibly be that you have just not noticed the page navigation buttons highlighted below. The repeating of the original post at the the top of each page does sometimes give the impression that posts are missing, this sometimes even catches out the mods.

[Potrail2378]

Chrissaf - yes, I did miss that point. The update of the group in the new year (certainly when viewed on my phone) doesn't make that option visible unless you scroll right down to the bottom.

[Chrissaf]

thumbsup

Yes, the page layout used on a mobile device doesn't help. Just pleased to know that there is no 'post deletion' bug that needs to be investigated.

[Stephen in Kerry]

My main source of income, until I recently retired, was from photography, and video production. I'm still being asked to do work for people in my local area, and sometimes for larger organisations.

In the last week, I've finished a big project producing 3 online concerts for a well-established Irish Chamber Music Festival. They offered a healthy 4-figure fee for the work (which took eight 15-hour days) and I gladly accepted.

However (and this is the point, finally), I don't ask a fee from friends or locals who ask me to do work for them. The typical phrase I hear is...'I'll sort you out for the cost'. After many years of being paid a fee that I think is worth the high standard of work I provide, I'd rather not take anything, because there will definitely be a mismatch between what I think it's worth and what they want to pay me. If I told them the real 'value' of the work, they'd think I was robbing them, and if I took their 'sorted out' fee, I'd think I was underselling myself. So, I usually do a 'deal' or I do it for free.

A recent 'deal' was with the owner of a large tourism business that takes people on boats to a local beauty spot - Skellig Michael off the coast of Kerry, Ireland. I recently made some drone videos showing off their fleet of 7 boats and he offered 'to sort me out' for the money. 2 or 3 days work would be worth several hundred Euros to me, so I declined the offer. But, as he also is a top-class carpenter, I asked him to make me a 8x4ft baseboard, with legs, for my new layout. He agreed, and we're both happy.

[Smudge617]

I've done a few conversions for friends, I don't charge for my time but always ask what they want to be done. Tell them what I need and where to get them from, (and to shop around especially if they only want a decoder fitted), get them to order the parts required, and bring me everything when they have it. Less embarrassing for everyone that way, amazing how many friends suddenly decide to stick with DC.