Steam generator locos

[Leeberry50]

Hi,

it’s not clear from the descriptions, but will the black 5 or prince of wales work on DC only? And still steam?

Obviously they won’t have the sound but we have the HM6000 so will be close enough for my 5 year old.

Thanks in advance

[ColinB]

Yes I suspect they will. If you watch Jenny Kirk's video on the one their competitor makes their's works a lot better on DCC as you can control it better. Even with the smoke units, I found wiring them to a DCC function improved them a lot. In answer to your question though, it looks like they will work on DC as in the text it mentions a TTS decoder upgrade.

[atom3624]

At that price I'd want more than the poor TTS 'chuffing' on board!

Al.

[ColinB]

Yes atom3624 I would agree. The one Jenny KIrk tested had a DCC function that gave more chuffs of smoke the faster the train moved and moved off, I think if I remember the Zimo decoder already has this although it doesn't work that well with normal smoke units because of the heating lag. TTS decoders as far as I know currently don't support this mode.

[SteveM6]

Admittedly I have only quickly looked at the launch details but in the blurb they mention ‘upgraded’ TTS decoders, 21 pin decoders and 8 to 21 pin adapters. They also show the ‘SS’ locos as DCC ready.

The assumption is that they will need a new 21 pin decoder for the steam to work increasing the overall cost even further.

[Bulleidboy]

I have just watched Mike Wilde discussing the new Black 5, who says it comes with flickering fire box, working lamps, steam and sound - no mentioned that it requires a TTS sound decoder to be fitted - the way he describes it, it comes as the complete package.

The Key Publishing video on the new Hornby 2022 range is worth watching - it is one hour and forty five minutes long.

[SteveM6]

On the website it just says ‘DCC ready 21 pin socket’ - my take on that is that the new decoder is a separate item. No doubt DCC SS fitted will be available at some point in the future.

[Bulleidboy]

On the video it says the "steam" version of the Black 5 will do everything, straight out of the box. It is described as the most advanced loco Hornby has ever produced. I note that many of the new models are either "Ready or Fitted" with 21-pin decoders - Hornby have their version of the decoder in the pipeline.

[DarkRedCape]

I just pre-ordered the R3984SS Prince of Wales. I’ve not really heard a single positive thing about smoke generating locos, but I’d like to try stuff in this hobby at least once for myself.

Price is very high, but it’s a beautiful looking loco and I’m interested to see how it all works.

[Leeberry50]

update on this. I spoke to Hornby Technician today and they will only work on DCC.

Little disappointed as could be made clearer on the website.

[XJR1300]

@Leeberry50 There's a great deal on the website, in their catalogues and sales videos that needs making clearer. Being a very new returner to the hobby, I find their sales and marketing appalling, like you it left me with many questions. Not what a prospective buyer should be faced with. At prices now approaching £250 - £270 plus for steam generator and over £300 for top of the range Dublo locos, it's really very second rate.

Which in my experience, is synonymous of a failed company being still run the same way and probably by a fair few of the very people who run it into the ground in the first place.

They just can't see their own failings and never will.

[96RAF]

How plain do you need it to be - the product pages say it comes with sound. SS means sound and smoke. The one is necessary for the other. TTS sound has never worked on DC so no reason for this one to either.

It is typical a marketing script writing getting it wrong and not having it proof read by engineering. Last years catalogue was no different - remember the Rocket decoder saga. One page said this and the next page said that.

Did anyone notice the white socket on the image of the new non sound decoder before it was taken off page. Wild guesses as to what that might be for. Until we get the user manual(s) you may never know.

It is obvious though that to operate the extra features provided the new ‘TTS’ decoder will have to be a step up from the old ones.

[Leeberry50]

It’s not clear, and the video release, as others have mentioned says it works out of the box. Which it clearly doesn’t as it doesn’t come with a DCC decoder even to work on DCC.

Says link with a DCC sound decoder for the sound, doesn’t say needs it for the steam. Says if you want to add the sound. (Which I don’t) and the triang steam 040 works perfectly fine without DCC, I know it’s ancient, but there are other steam generators available without DCC, as you @96RAF have advised me of previously. So it could be much clearer.

[96RAF]

not only ... but also

The ‘link this to that’ is simply poor grammar. It maybe should have said Hornby has linked this to that.

As I said I said poor script writing.

[Chrissaf]

I suggest the word "link" should have been written as "links" to correct the grammar.

The highlighted text below clearly states that the loco comes with sound, therefore a decoder must be included.

Further evidence is that there is no shop listing I can find for pre-ordering an after market SS sound decoder, which also infers that the SS model is factory decoder equipped.

If it wasn't for the fact that the 'tech spec' says 'DCC Ready', then I doubt that this ongoing dialogue would be taking place. Hornby tech specs have a long history of being inaccurate, I for one have reported many tech spec errors to Hornby that have subsequently been corrected.

[Leeberry50]

Can discuss all day Language used, but the point remains it’s not clear.

That can be seen by the comments on this thread.

And whilst it maybe clear to someone with your knowledge of the hobby, it’s not for most, and luckily I was able to cancel the pre-order or would have had a almost £300 paperweight come autumn 2022.

[XJR1300]

Total lack of quality control. They aren't going to listen either as they think they're superb, it's amateurish at best. It's very poorly written, completely misleading, they are running the risk of people preordering it, having to wait who knows how long to get it. Then finding out they've got to pay more for decoders to get it to steam/sound.

If that is the case it will just upset people, who likely as not won't buy again, you couldn't make this stuff up and it's basic marketing/sales stauff. It's also possibly misrepresentation and could get them into trouble with trading standards, if someone's prepared to push it, along the lines of the Thunderbolt unfolding saga.

I'm not going near this loco as much as I'd like one, until the full facts are out. Likely as not that won't be until, members are telling us on this forum!

[Leeberry50]

I preordered based on the wording and the video.

luckily I checked here and spoke to the tech team as otherwise would have had an expensive paperweight and upset son when it got here and wouldn’t work.

[96RAF]

I have asked Hornby to clarify this and to correct any on-line product page errors. Obviously correcting printed matter and boxes is a different matter and likely may never happen.

I have more knowledge of these products than I am able to post on this forum, so I tend to speak from authority by giving heavy hints but as usual only a few folk take notice.

[sprint]

I to would like to know if the smoke and sound is operational from the box on a DC system as I am sure there are a number of people who don't have or want to run a DCC system but who would perhaps like to have the SS?

[Leeberry50]

Nobody is doubting your knowledge @96RAF you have helped me many times.

it’s the info out there for the public who don’t have your knowledge that’s the issue here

[37lover]

I have placed a pre-order based on the item having a fitted sound decoder and will leave the pre-order unless Hornby clearly state this is not the case. If no statement is forthcoming and the loco arrives without a decoder it shall be returned and I would expect Hornby to give a full refund, as they have done for a couple of returns in the past [the Class 20TTS as an example due to very poor quality].

[96RAF]

Nobody is doubting your knowledge @96RAF you have helped me many times.

it’s the info out there for the public who don’t have your knowledge that’s the issue here

 

 

Unfortunately I am bound by an NDA so a lot of what I know is not available to the forum, which frustrates me as much as it does the members, but those are the rules I am restricted by.

I will say the user manual for the new decoder(s) is a tad more comprehensive than the current TTS leaflet.

[Simmo009]

The printed catalogue says DCC Fitted. I infer from this that it will run on DC layouts, but the lights/sound/smoke will not function. But I have a nagging voice in the back of my mind that TTS chips are supplied with DC running disabled. But that may be different with the 21 pin system. Back to lack of details and best guesses.

[XJR1300]

@96RAF as @Leeberry50 states, no one is doubting your intentions or knowledge. But you (I assume) are not in Hornby's employ, someone else is and isn't/can't do their job. Not to mention whomever should be overseeing this element of the business to make sure they can.

@Leeberry50 you're point of public knowledge, right on the mark. I myself am completely new to the hobby, only coming back to the hobby before Christmas, spurred on by the recent TV series. I can honestly say, that if any business wanted to make things, difficult and confusing for customers, Hornby would win by a country mile!

It's reading things on this forum, the likes of SAMs, Jennifer E trains on Youtube, talking to retailers, the very retailers Hornby are not treating to well, that's got me buying their products. Had they not been there, I would have walked away, such is the poor quality of their marketing and sales buff, not to mention the not so cleaver website.