Hornby missing sales opportunities.

[ColinB]

Ok this sounds like a moan, but it isn't it is just an observation. I have just ordered the new A3 from Hornby, go to buy a suitable TTS decoder and notice that Hornby have discontinued it. Fortunately there are still a load of Retailers with them, but isn't this a missed opportunity? Similarly, about a month ago Hornby released a class 60 diesel, same again Hornby have stopped doing the TTS decoder. These are just a few of many. As we know from the TV program all TTS decoders are the same, they just load the particular locos signature into it (I knew this ages ago, but the program proved it), aren't Hornby missing sales opportunities? As for me, if the loco is any good I will put a decent sound decoder in it, fortunately with the price rises TTS decoders are not such a good value as they were.

[Going Spare]

Both the A1/A3 and class 60 TTS decoders are showing on the website.

[ColinB]

I must admit I didn't check that one, they are too expensive, but an awful lot of the retailers were saying it is discontinued. I think the class 60, was still marketed by them but again very few retailers have them.

[Peter Stiles]

We could always hope that this is possibly because Hornby are tooling up for a huge release of 21-pin sound decoders and want to run the 8-pins out of stock first?

[96RAF]

All a bit misleading Colin...

As GS says the A1/A3 is in stock.

https://uk.hornby.com/products/tts-sound-decoder-class-a1a3-r8106

Maybe your awful lot of retailers needs to check with their area sales rep before putting out false news.

As for cost they are what they nowadays and likely to get worse as the world goes round.

As for awaiting stock of the 21-pin variant, there are only three of choice listed so far and they are not due for some time so I doubt Hornby would stop resupply of all the other TTS stock items until then, in any case 8-pin will likely run alongside the new 21-pin, as well as 4 and 6 pin non-sound variants. Until we see the spec published we have not idea what the range will be.

[VESPA]

One of the biggest sales "misses" is introducing the Hush Hush and not getting the superb teaks back in production. I missed out on them due to financial constraints at the time but would get a rake if they were reintroduced. No doubt many LNER fans would like to see them back as well with the plethora of LNER express locos available. ( by all makes)

[ColinB]

I did wonder 96RAF if perhaps many retailers were not doing them because of the issues, so when they run out they don't restock. There were an awful lot of them. I did do a search of many, I didn't check Hornby because they are not very competitive in pricing. As to the cost I just mentioned Hornby are very expensive at over £50.00 a go, which may be why they have stocks left. Bure Valley were doing them for £35.00, yes I appreciate that they were probably old stock hence the low price. As to the 21 pin, I suspect that we won't be seeing any of that until early next year, although they did already have a 21 pin socket that fitted into the tender for the early locos with LokSound decoders so really they just need to resurrect that. It was a really nice board in PCB terms, I even bought a couple of tenders second hand just for that board. It is also a direct replacement for the PCB with the 8 pin socket. Hattons did have both but I have just scanned and they no longer have them. Even Hornby are saying that they are the last few. I have just found one at the old price at Tennants and on that site it also says discontinued product, so perhaps it is.

[ColinB]

@VESPA you are absolutely right, I did exactly the same. Fortunately I managed to acquire by a mixture of second hand and old stock, but they are always doing it. They sold a whole lot of Scotrail carriages, the blue ones like Bachmann now do, with no diesel to go with them. I had to go and find a Dapol one.

[Simmo009]

There was a trader at Ally Pally at the weekend doing 3 for £100, and he had plenty. Think they are called EKM Exhibitions. He was at GETS last October too, so check the trader lists to see where he is next. He also does plenty of spares and stuff, as well as new old stock and preloved items. Just a satisfied customer, no connection.

[ColinB]

@Simmo009 yes i know EKM Exhibitions I have bought a couple of new Hornby locos off him, very reasonable prices. I didn't know about the coaches though. I think he used to be involved with East Kent Models and bought their stock when it closed. He has a web site.

[DBfan]

@Simmo009 yes i know EKM Exhibitions I have bought a couple of new Hornby locos off him, very reasonable prices. I didn't know about the coaches though. I think he used to be involved with East Kent Models and bought their stock when it closed. He has a web site.

 

 

EKM Exhibitions is the same bloke who used to run East Kent Models

[Going Spare]

Not quite!

[ColinB]

DBfan if you read his website, he says he used to do exhibitions for East Kent Models and bought what was left when the owner retired. Good place to get TTS decoders at the old price.

[AndyMac1707817969]

Manufacturing in China means you can’t ‘Give factory a call and see if there are any in store room, else get them to run off a few more!’. If one item such as a specific DCC decoders sells faster than expected then there is no way to get any replacements for just that one version that sold out until the next planned order that probably has a lead time of 6 months and minimum batches means ordering for a range of different locos. They may be the same basic decoder with a different sound file but I doubt very much someone at Hornby is downloading the file to ‘blank’ decoders, this will be done as part of the production run. Not practical or cost effective to just do a relatively small quantity for just one particular loco.

[CORKY.]

The Belmond Class 67, 3 car Pullman set does not have matching Pullman cars to add to the set. The current full size Belmond train has 10 Pullman cars, and the cars have been in use for nearly a century, giving huge scope for use with other locos. The cars in the set are one kitchen , two parlour, whilst the cars on the full size Belmond are paired one kitchen to one parlour. As new cars are not available , second hand boxed sets of three seem to be the only way to go, but you would end up with a redundant parlour car, for every needed kitchen car...which would all be named IBIS

[ColinB]

Yes, AndyMac you are probably right but having said that we frequently updated software in vehicle electronic control systems and yes sometimes we did several hundred. Even I as a senior engineer have spent my time doing it. You just setup up a script on your PC to press a button when you want to program a next one. In fact that is probably how they do it in production. So yes they could do it if they had to, in fact you could do what we used to do, give it to a firm down the road, you just give them the instructions and they do it. I think one time we did about 2000 production cars, just wrote a script and gave it to this firm. If they wanted to they could even use a bit of automatic test equipment that programs via a bed of nails, machine costs the same whether it is in China or the UK, I doubt it is a production line they don't make enough. There will be one for the hardware as there is no other way of placing surface mount components.

[96RAF]

Can we get this sound decoder re-provision thing put straight.

Blank decoders are provided to Hornby (think of this as being to their sound file loading sub contractors) loaded with basic NMRA compatible firmware to provide all standard loco functionality, then the bespoke sound file is overloaded by the sub contractor to that decoder blank. Each production run of sound decoders is set at a notional 2000 units to break even (i.e. achieve Hornby target profit).

These production runs are farmed out, A - likely in the tens of thousands to provide the blank decoders with the basic operational capability load and B - in runs of 2,000 to provide a particular loco sound file load. A and B may be the same company.

It is as simple as that.

Now look at practicalities...

Hornby Tech Dept and Hornby Repairs both have the rigs (Colin’s bed of nails) to connect the firmware loader device (MPLabs PicKit) to a decoder to be able to load a particular sound file on a limited production basis - say one-offs for warranty purposes. They do not have the spare resource to do even a limited (say 10-100) production run.

Tech Dept obviously have this bench kit to be able to develop current and next generation sound decoders, such as the SS range yet to be formally announced in detail along with the associated equivalent spec non-sound variants.

What I can say is the new range of Hornby (sound and non sound) decoders firmware will be user update-able (e.g. think updating ESU decoders via LokProgrammer but easier and cheaper). What I cannot say yet is how these user updates will be made available to users by Hornby.

Are we all clear?

[ColinB]

Yes 96RAF, but that is what I figured anyway.