Have a Peep tell me if DCC wiring for this PECO section will work please.

[wapples]

Hi All. Spoke to PECO whom gave me a home drawn diagram and then I tried to interpret it through Railmodeller so could you please confirm that the Location of the wiring and the INSUL JOINERS are in the right place. This section will all be PECO code 100 using standard DCC Concepts IP point motors with the sniffer (no block detection) The rest of the track is Just HORNBY using the HORNBY DCC POINT clips just making sure that if i go ahead with this it will work and not interfere with the rest of the layout. Cheers

EMAIL from PECO

[96RAF]

It looks OK to me as in general the IRJs go on the frog rail ends, but I am no expert on electrofrog points. I would suggest you compare your given solution with that of Brian Lambert - links to his site here https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/useful-links

Brian has covered every combination of track frog types in various configurations, so it should be a simple exercise to compare yours with his.

[ColinB]

Basically you need to put an insulated joiner on each rail going to the frog of the point. When the point switches it puts a direct short across the other outlet of the point so you have to insulate to avoid this happening.

[Jim-R855]

SL-## indicates insulfrog points, SLE-## would indicate electrofrog points, looks like you are building your station with insulfrog points?

If you are actually using electrofrog, then as ColinB says you need the insulating joiners on the rail that goes to the frog, so for example the top left SLE-89 crossover you have shown the single isolation on the straight through rail on both points. So on the upper track you have the isolation on the top rail (straight through) and would need to have it on the bottom rail. The double isolation on the rails that lead to the other poimt are OK, but again on the other point you show the single isolation on the lower (straight through) rail and it needs to be on the upper rail (which leads to the frog). You have the same problem on the lower left SLE-88 crossover. The lower right SLE-89/SLE-80 crossover/slip has the isolation in the correct places, but the upper right SLE-80/SLE-88 slip/crossover you have the slip side right but on the SLE-88 you need to move from the top rail to the lower rail again.

Will it work - there is a diagram on Brian Lambert's site showing the correct distances for all sorts of things in 00 scale, as I recall the minimum distance between parallel track centrelines is 50mm, so if you are not confident, try measuring it in your software.

[wapples]

sorry I want to use insulfrog points like Hornbys are. Sorry the cad diagram might be misleading since I just went for the shape yes I would

be using insulated frogs the same as Hornby. I’m just using the large points to get that better sweeping and flowing effect.

i simply wanted it to look like this but with the HORNBY simplicity. But they tell me you should not use the HORNBY DCC CLIPS with peco and I understand so was just trying to come up with best way to get to the end result. Great comments. Thanks all so much.

[96RAF]

Belay my last pipe about IRJs, etc. If you are using Hornby points there is no need for IRJs on a DCC layout unless you specifically need to isolate sections, say for block detection or fault finding, etc.

Those point clips are only needed to provide continuity across a point and are not required if you intend to wire each track piece to a power bus.

[wapples]

To clarify Layout 80% is all HORNBY Points with DCC Power clips :)

This section 20% will be PECO points And wont have DCC power clips

So hence I need to know I have the right points (insulfrog yes).

The Lower Diagram is from PECO and how I have been told to do it So I then redrew it in the CAD software translating the PECO drawing with GREEN INSUL joiners and the QUESTION is

Have i got the wiring locations and ISUL Joiners in the correct spot?

:) Cheers

OP

[Flashbang]

Hi

If all your Peco points are Insulated frog (Peco SL xx or ST xx) as are all Hornby points, then no Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs) are needed on a DCC layout. Just add dropper rail feeds as shown by the arrow heads in the Peco drawing and this will ensure all tracks are live regardless of any point position. Ideally run a DCC Bus pair of wires from the DCC console around under the layout and tap off these two wires with the smaller wire droppers to the rails.

On a DCC layout you only need IRJs where Electrofrog points are used (Peco SL-Exx) Note the "E" denoting they are Electrofrog.

Edit to correct typing.

[wapples]

FBANG

thats the answer I was waiting on. Spot on I’m avoiding electro frogs and yes it’s the “proper” way but simplicity rules SO I’ll stick with insulated like Hornby.

dcc concepts alpha with sniffer control point motors because it’s simple.

so last question is

peco insul points won’t need DCC clips because they are a better built point that keeps power flowing in the right path? Why does Hornby need the clip?

also that’s a single slip so I get that in insulfrog? Or is there any additional wiring I need to do? Or just the power feeds as diagram?

yes master bus feed and distributors in key areas for the track feeders.

OP

[Flashbang]

Hi

Peco do not recommend using Hornby point clips on their points. Whether this is because they are from another manufacturer or it's because the rail fixing is slightly different, I have no idea? While point clips work, IMO its far better to wire the layout using a DCC Bus pair of wires and droppers to the rails. If you can fit clips to Peco points, then go ahead, you then really only need one power feed to the rails for all tracks.

All Insulated frog points (Except the Peco Single and Double slip) cut off the power to the unset direction. On a DCC layout this needs to be overcome to allow power to flow in all rails regardless of the point blades position. So you either fit clips or wire in a DCC bus pair and droppers to the rails.

The Peco SL80 single slip is insulated frog. However, I believe it is like it's bigger brother the SL 90 Double Slip in that it does not self-isolate the unset direction, so clips on the slips would not be necessary, as power flows out to all directions regardless of the point blades position.

[Brew Man]

I can confirm that the Hornby clips will fit on PECO insulfrog points, but as FB says, it is far better to wire all rails directly from the DCC bus.

[Fishmanoz]

If you are aiming for simplicity, then you may consider DCC Point Clips rather than the bus solution. We all know the bus is better practice but we also know that some here have operated a layout for years using only clips. On the other hand, one user had a point overheat and burn due to a clip going high resistance with age.

If you are going for a bus, then from scratch, there is little additional complexity in going for electrofrogs, IMHO. There is no doubt this will give you much better reliability with locos running over them and, particularly using frog switching, elimination of shorts from wheels bridging adjacent rails at the frog.

But to each his own solution.

[wapples]

FANTASTIC AND yes your right the original Hornby trackmat just had the original feed and the clips being the dream fixed layout feeds everywhere. And should smooth sailing. Y’all the best. Now expect to see that upper diagram again because i’m going to post to asking for suggestions to do with where to place signals

Really I’d love to just be using those illuminated motorised dapol semaphore signals.

BUT I’ve always wanted to HAVe a signal gantry and it would only be in this section anyway hey I’m happy to have a gantry at either end of this complication but I will need advice on that and obviously ground signals for the siding all advice always warmly welcome but I think we’ve nailed it with what I need to purchase regarding InCell frog points and necessary wiring and I should be good you PERSONS are the best

see you in my next post on signals.

OP

[Fishmanoz]

If only about signal locations, not their DCC operation, you are best to post in General.

[wapples]

If only about signal locations, not their DCC operation, you are best to post in General.

Thanks Fish & Chips that's a Fair dinkum idea shall do. I imagine I will just have them running through those IR sensors they will be pretty automatic maybe will get adventurous with the new ESP options from DCC concepts who knows. party on.

OP