Hornby Elite delayed again

[DarkRedCape]

When I first put a pre-order on my Hornby Elite, it was 30th of October 2021. It was then pushed back to March/April, then it was pushed back to May/June. I emailed Hattons about it and they said they expected it at the end of June. We don't have much of June left, so I checked Hattons website, and the ETA is now January/Febuary 2023.

I don't get how they can be told "you'll get it in June" then it's put back 7/8 months. I keep hearing how they might be having trouble getting the parts, but this really doesn't seem to be the case anymore. The Elite doesn't use super high tech and high grade technology, so why does this product continuously keep getting delayed?

At this point, I'm considering cancelling my pre-order and just going with another controller.

[ColinB]

I suspect Hornby get these made in batches to get the price down, so that might be the reason. The Elite is not cheap so in my view a very bad decision.

[DarkRedCape]

What’s a very bad decision?

[96RAF]

I thought Hattons had fallen out with HH due to the new tier system, but they still appear to be flogging Hornby kit.

[DarkRedCape]

I was also under the impression they weren’t on good terms, but maybe it’s a case of business is business and you can’t always like who you work with.

[Brew Man]

I was under the impression that it was Bachmann they had fallen out with, Rails having fallen out with Hornby. I've never noticed any particular shortage of Hornby stuff in Hattons, whereas pretty well all Bachman products are pre-owned.

[Bulleidboy]

I know over the years there have been price increases, but considering the Elite has not changed, other than the odd upgrade the current price does seem high?. I bought mine, new, in January 2009 and paid £123.20 - on this site today, the price is £326.75.

[threelink]

@Bulleidboy

I agree but, however much we may dislike it, all prices are high and, I am sure, will get much higher. It's a sad fact of life. Had I not found a source of inexpensive stock I would have been forced to quit the hobby years ago. I suspect that I am not alone in this.

[DarkRedCape]

Luckily when I pre-ordered mine it was £250. Hattons seem to have honoured that price as it has not changed, and I hope it doesn’t, but we’ll see I guess.

I agree that they make them in batches to keep the price down, but I can’t see there being such little demand for them that they continuously keep delaying the date. If anything I think the demand is probably quite high now given how long they’ve been unavailable.

As for the price increase, it does seem that it has gone beyond what you could reasonably expect to pay for it, for a product that is ultimately unchanged for a very long time. Are we just victims of price gouging?

[Brew Man]

@DA

If your pre-order is still at £250 then they are still honouring the previous price. Their current price is £275.

[ColinB]

Ok, the reason I thought it was a bad decision is that compared to its competitors the price is extremely high, so if you want to sell them you need to make sure your Dealers have stock, before the buyer starts looking around and notices how expensive it is. It is a very old device, I used to make this sort of development equipment and to me it looks extremely dated, bit like something I designed in the 1990s. It should be cheaper now to when it came out, that is how pricing on electronic stuff works, I don't subscribe to the view that you just increase the price because you can. That is the surest way to bankruptcy, if something has been improved then yes pay more, I doubt you would pay over £200 for a ringfield based tender drive loco if Hornby still made them. That is why they constantly upgrade phones, it gives them a reason to charge more. I paid £190 for my digikeijs, admittedly I needed a PC to run it but most people have one of them, the only thing the Elite has over it is the easy programming menus, but there again that is just part of the software which could easily be added to it. I must admit I haven't ventured into programming mode on the digikeijs, as at the moment I still use the Elite, but it is brilliant for running the locos on the track. I don't know if Hornby are looking at this but using a dumb device that does the DCC but talks WiFi with a Phone, Pad or PC is the way forward, similar to their Railmaster setup, but with a much simpler menu for the person that just wants to run and program trains rather than setting up a system.

[DarkRedCape]

I think I remember reading that Hornby were looking at a successor to the Elite. I can’t seem to find any reliable information on this, but I do think it’s something they seriously need to be looking at.

As for just increasing the price because they can, sadly I think it’s something that’s all too common these days, and I think Hornby are guilty of it too.

[ColinB]

I see no issue with a manufacturer increasing the price if they can, but if the product is overpriced in the first place, all they are doing is removing the market for it. As to making the buyer wait several months for it that is not a good formula to work with. I assume the Elite uses SMD devices plus probably a very old PIC processor, I know from my experience to set up a pick and place machine for placing and soldering SMD devices needs a reasonable production run, then we have the issue of if they can still get the processor if it is that old.

[DarkRedCape]

I emailed Hattons about this and they apologised, and they said something interesting, but due to being relatively new to this hobby, I may need some help.

They said a worldwide electronic component shortage is causing Hornby trouble producing many of their products, (which we know is true) but they said that this is a hobby wide issue, and that all manufacturers are having issues producing their controllers.

I know pretty much all of you have your controllers, and have done for several years, but I’m not really knowledgeable on other brands controllers.

For those who know what all the controllers are, what are the most popular ones that people use? I’d like to do some hunting around and see how available or unavailable they are to verify Hattons claims.

Just to clarify, I’m not looking to smear Hattons as I know these shortages are completely out of their hands, but I’m interested to see what products are more readily available as I’m probably going to cancel my Elite and look at another controller.

[96RAF]

There definitely has been a world shortage of certain electronics components. I expect the Elite resupply is affected like many other things.

Loads of new cars were parked up on delayed delivery waiting for black boxes, which sent the nearly new but available second hand prices through the roof. My mate in Canada has been waiting many months for hobby project parts, some with no forecast.

[ColinB]

I know there was a shortage months ago but I am not so sure now. I am pretty sure the Elite uses a PIC processor, it is probably more likely that as this flavor is quite old they have probably stopped making them for the moment. Trouble is most manufacturers that use this PIC have probably moved on to newer processors, still PICs but faster, so it may that there is not a big enough market out there for a manufacturer to start a new run. When I worked in microelectronics it was difficult to order less than 1000 processors, manufacturers just weren't interested. I doubt Hornby make that many Elites so that is probably the bigger issue. As to the replacements if your read my earlier posts you will see which one I recommend.

[DarkRedCape]

In their response email, Hattons did say that the demand for the Elite was very high, which was their reason, and I assume Hornbys, for increasing the price.

[Anglia998]

When considering delays, it is well to remember that Hornby do not have a manufacturing base in this country. They depend entirely on shipments from China.

The biggest port in China is Shanghai, which has been in lock down for several weeks.

Not so very long ago, There were literally hundreds of ships standing off Shanghai waiting to load/unload. I am sure Hornby do all they can to expedite delivery of new product.

[ColinB]

Hornby did a 10% and then 10% price rise on all products within 6 months of each. So that is why the price rose.

[DarkRedCape]

Hattons said the price went up because the demand was very high and because of the component shortage.

I get the component shortage causing the price to rise, but any cost increase from it being unavailable shouldn’t be passed on to the customer.

[DarkRedCape]

Well, not really sure what’s going on with this product. As my original comment said, Hattons implied this product would now not be available until early 2023.

However, just now out of the blue, I’ve received an order processed email from Hattons and my Elite is finally on its way. The communication is confusing to say the least, but it’ll be here soon, so I can’t really grumble.

They did stick to my pre-order price, which is a nice little bonus.

Hattons website still shows this as out of stock, so maybe they got a small batch in and they were instantly eating up by pre-orders.

[ColinB]

Well that is good news for you. Surprising though, Hornby don't seem to be making much at the moment.

[96RAF]

When you get it check the date code on the bottom xx/yr, also the last production run only has one Xpressnet port due to the sprung terminals now being larger than previous batches. It may be a returned item.

[DarkRedCape]

96RAF - I hope this isn’t the case, but will do.

I noticed that they changed the courier that I selected when I placed my order. Its gone from DPD to Royal Mail, and I’ve had some bad experiences with RM.

[96RAF]

Both RM and DPD are excellent in our area although DPD reporting shows that any parcel goes right round the country to get here and generally takes three days whereas RM is normally overnight.