Availability of 21 pin decoder (Hornby)

[DarkRedCape]

Well serves me right for going overboard with the pre-orders with a company historically unable to ever stick to them. I place orders then over a year later I get an email saying it’s on its way. I don’t really mind this.

My R30231 Queen’s platinum jubilee is on its way. I pre-ordered this as a bit of an impulse thing, but I didn’t really want it. Totally forget I’d pre-ordered it and now it’s on its way. It is what it is I guess.

So I went to buy the decoder for it and it’s not available until spring 2023. Am I missing something here? Are they available, but sold out, or are they not even released yet? Did they really sell a train that people in DCC can’t use for god knows how long given Hornbys current state of product availability?

I’ve been rather inactive in the train world the last few months due to work and life, so I’m hoping I’ve just missed the release of the decoder and it’s a stock issue, but the way the Hornby website reads, it’s not even released yet.

Could anyone kindly clarify which one it is?

[96RAF]

The Hornby 21-pin decoder has yet to be released. 21-pin decoders are available from other manufacturers. It is not essential to use a Hornby decoder in a Hornby loco (the new but yet to be released steam generator locos excepted).

Some new locos however (e.g. recent Hornby Class 91 and Dapol Class 68) require a six function decoder to get all the lights, etc to work correctly.

[DarkRedCape]

Interesting. So they did release a train without an available decoder.

I’m sure I can pick up another brand.

Thanks 96RAF.

[Going Spare]

The 21-pin decoder was originally set for Q3 release so would have more-or-less coincided with the loco's arrival, but subsequently delayed as with much electronic equipment.

[DarkRedCape]

I’m quite surprised at the release date of the R30231 Queen Jubilee. It wasn’t announced that long ago and it’s released already. I’ve had other locos and items on pre-order that were announced way before the Queen Jubilee and are still months away from their release date.

[SteveM6]

A relatively simple repaint would always hit the shelves before an all new model.

[ColinB]

Hornby have always found ways to get their special projects done quickly. Look how quickly Captain Tom got released, so I suspect this is the same. You would have thought though with a bit of forward thinking they could of got it released quicker, but I suppose they didn't know the Severn Valley railway would do the repaint. I suspect Hornby likes doing these as it is "free money", most people that model these locos have probably already got one, but by doing a special the market opens up. As to the decoder put a decent sound chip in it.

[DarkRedCape]

Which sound chip would you recommend ColinB? I’ve only had one Hornby TTS for my Britannia and it was DOA.

[96RAF]

You need to look for a 21-pin sound decoder, but if opting for a TTS decoder then an adapter board will be required. Several such devices are available from the usual specialist suppliers.

The problem comes if trying to install a 21-pin decoder in an 8-pin socket loco where an adapter harness is required.

We already know Hornby are developing a new sound decoder, as required for their steam generator locos, so my advice would be to fit a cheaper non-sound decoder for now and wait for their sound decoder to be released.

[ColinB]

Well DarkRedCape I use Zimo ones, they are expensive so I only fit them into my decent locos. TTS seem to have got better lately, there was a time when they were always failing. I don't know it there is enough room in your tender but you could buy a 21 pin to 8 pin converter and then use an 8 pin decoder. Alternately buy a 21 pin header off bwtechnical services and rewire the 8 pin to fit it.

[rpjallan]

We already know Hornby are developing a new sound decoder, as required for their steam generator locos, so my advice would be to fit a cheaper non-sound decoder for now and wait for their sound decoder to be released.

 

 

Won’t the steam generator part be required in the decoder? I doubt they would make them available to retrofit. I don’t know if they would be thinking of a 21 pin TTS decoder. I doubt it because if they were I think they would have announced it.

 

 

[ColinB]

I am really interested to see how the new range of steam locos work. I know how the technology works so that is not an issue. The issue is how to drive it. The steam generator is in the loco, the dcc decoder is in the tender. There are 4 wires between loco and tender, 2 for power from track, two for motor feed and return. So you tell me how you control the steam? The only way I can see to do it is to use a function decoder in the loco. That is why on a lot of new Bachmann steam locos the decoder is in the loco, that is the only way you can control firebox flicker, rather than in Hornby's case having it on all the time.

I suspect they developed the 21 dcc decoder more for multiple lighting use in their diesel/electric locos.

[DarkRedCape]

I’m very interested in the new steam generating locos, I have all three on pre-order. I’ve not heard good things about steam generating locos because they’re messy and melt plastic, but the new Hornby system is supposed to be more like an aroma diffuser, which I have, and they produce no mess at all.

As for how it works, I imagine that if it is indeed like an aroma diffuser, which uses ultrasonic, then all it will need is two wires to activate it. I’ve seen inside my diffuser when it got wet and it’s just two wires from the main board to the ultrasonic pad.

My main interest is the capacity of the water tank. I suspect they will cut down on the size of the chassis weight and use the weight of a full tank to compensate. I don’t want to have to be filling up the tank every five minutes.

[96RAF]

@colin

You are talking apples and pears. The OPs missing decoder is a non sound device that was in the 2022 launch catalogue (in support of the Class 91), but delayed due to world events and yes you are correct in that it supports the extra functions needed for the lights - a kind of Sapphire Mk2.

The decoder for the steam generator models is a sound decoder and has yet to be launched, the spec has not been seen in the public domain, hence we know little about it except by speculation that it is a requirement to drive the steam unit. Logic says control of the steam unit must be by way of a function output, which is feeding into further circuitry in the loco module that is the steam unit. If the decoder is in the tender with the speaker (likely) then this indicates to me that a four pin loco to tender wire is not enough. I seem to remember these locos also feature lights.

@DRC

The running time per fill is between 20 to 30 minutes dependant upon CV settings for steam volume and chuff time on.

[DarkRedCape]

I was just checking the Hornby website and I either didn't catch it first time around, or forgot, but the three new steam generating locos come fitted with a TTS decoder.

Very glad I pre-ordered mine several months ago because holy moly, they are almost £300 each now.

[96RAF]

@DRC

... despite the blurb although the locos will definitely be DCC sound fitted the decoder cannot be a TTS decoder as the current device is 8-pin and does not support the new models extended functionality. It will be a completely new decoder as it needs to be 21-pin and as stated we the public know little to nothing about it.

[DarkRedCape]

Well the new steam generating locos are stated for summer of 2023, so almost a years wait. Hopefully more information about the new system will come out in the interim.

I wonder if the new locos will use that little cube speaker they showed on their TV show.

[rpjallan]

I am really interested to see how the new range of steam locos work. I know how the technology works so that is not an issue. The issue is how to drive it. The steam generator is in the loco, the dcc decoder is in the tender. There are 4 wires between loco and tender, 2 for power from track, two for motor feed and return. So you tell me how you control the steam?

 

 

They may completely change the entire setup!

[rpjallan]

@DRC

... despite the blurb although the locos will definitely be DCC sound fitted the decoder cannot be a TTS decoder as the current device is 8-pin and does not support the new models extended functionality.

 

 

It may still be a TTS decoder. TTS Mk II?!?

Doesn't TTS just stand for twin track sound?

[Brew Man]

I believe it does, yes.

[96RAF]

OK call it a TTS Mk2 for now, but it may be polyphonic for all we know. One of the long standing gripes about TTS was it could only play the back-ground channel plus one other sound.

Other gripes were limited features and tweak-ability of CVs as it was based on R8249 architecture, so being 21-pin it may be based on an updated version of the more versatile R8245 Sapphire architecture.

You will just have to wait and see when it is announced.

[rpjallan]

What ever happened to the Sapphire decoder? Was it not a success? Or did it just go the way of some of Hornby's other DCC hardware?

[Rog RJ]

It was too expensive.

[96RAF]

I believe there was only ever one production run; and as Rog says it was too expensive in the day, despite being a good spec with unique features like fuel burn reported by Railcom and multi-event scheduling; and it was totally reliable. I still have a few in hand.

Pull the harness and its a direct plug 21-pin device. Use the harness to install TTS in some Bachmann locos, so handy in fact that LiasDCC has cloned it under the Sapphire name.

[Fishmanoz]

Mods, could you please add Availability to the thread title.