Rallymatt Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 I have not been too interested in Hornby track as I laid Peco for my layout. Obviously my Easterner set had track, it’s not very good. I’m trying to get a Tillig shunter to some form of less than scrap (it was brand new… long story to come later) I laid a circle, it’s not a circle. Basically the Chinese factory or the designer has made each curve section one sleeper too many… oops. If you look the track, the rails rise and dip, the curves have a negative camber. Oh dear Hornby do need to get a grip of the Quality their Chinese partner is sending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 RM, might I suggest this is not a geometry error, it is a design or production error and the thread would be better with this more correct title. The question is what is to be done about it? Particularly for those in the far flung corners of the globe. My suggestion - Hornby to be notified. On notification, they agree the track is faulty and replace it for every customer reporting it and without return of the faulty track. Mods, can you help with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 RM, just on the extra sleeper you mention, can this be verified by counting v the published track diagrams?Not that all the diagrams are accurate. In particular, the extended straight diagram is not the 92mm item, it is shown as a 166mm straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 I watched Chadwick Model Railway (Charlie) doing a review on YouTube of The Easterner set last night, and one of his gripes was that by just using the twelve curved sections contained in the set, by the time you got to fitting the last section of track there was a 3.5" overlap at the final joint. By joining this section of track as should be, distorted all of the other joints around the circle. He may have been a bit "picky", but the track should have made a perfect circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 Fishy, it’s difficult to decide where the exact fault lies but it’s suspicious that if you create a perfect circle the overlap relates to 1 sleeper per track piece. I have seen toy train track and this fails to even meet that standard, the distortion in all the pieces is quite severe. The points seem ok but on reflection I am glad I went with Peco for my layout track. A designer within Hornby signed off the track…there is clearly something wrong with it. The distortion is clearly a manufacturing fault. It seems different factories in China are making different elements, some are excellent some are not. Perhaps the poor quality track is why continental TT also runs so badly on some layouts? Same factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Or the distortion has reduced the effective radius by approx 10mm?Which other manufacturers manufacture in China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredoxford-344906 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 On this site a few weeks ago I reported that the Hornby 4th radius track was a bit large.I did find that the fleischmann N 3rd radius which is very similar is more accurate. (3rd radius Hornby i assume in this set)I wasn't sure where Mr Chadwick thought the error was coming from? Quite a bit of the error may be that when the rails are cut it is cut at the wrong angle, which could mean for example one rail is 0.2mm shorter than the other. Then if you push the track together with no gaps on either rail this may sort of exaggerate the track curve error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Matchett Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 The 3rd radius curves which I have, and which as Charlie Bishop rightly says, do not form a circle when twelve of them are fitted together, contain 35 sleepers, which is the same number as shown on Hornby’s shop illustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 Good point SM, I haven’t bothered checking the actual radius, as it’s not an issue for me, but it’s not great. Other than Peco I don’t know which mainstream manufacturers don’t make it in China. As rail length is in proportion to number of sleepers the fault could have crept in with either component. Rail specified too long so extra sleeper added to keep it balanced or too many sleepers and rails cut too long to compensate. The fact the track doesn’t sit flat and the rails rise and fall across their length points more towards a manufacturing fault. If the geometry was designed incorrectly you would at least expect the track pieces to sit flat and level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 My R3 curves responded quite well to being "de-stressed" (grasp either end, thumbs in the middle, firm pressure, noise as track moves relative to sleepers. If it breaks that was too much force...) and now form something resembling a circle.I think that they rushed production and quality control was, shall we say, a bit lacking.I have some track from the German manufacturer (R2 equivalent not R3) and, despite having similar geometry (in 2D not 3D) it is not identical I'm not part of H's target market of newcomers - if I was I would not be happy!The video by Charlie Chadwick seemed to me to be a bit of a rant and anti TT120 but his point (I paraphrase) about being entitled to expect something decent which works well straight out of the box was spot on.I'm fairly pleased with the good bits in the set and not too bothered about chucking the bad bits in the bin.Now Hornby needs to sort the quality problems out so this doesn't go the way of Triang TT. We've all invested our time and money in this and it's the least we deserve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-Man Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 In all my decades of railway modelling I have never made a setrack circle. Never had any need to. So I was curious if this problem might occur with other brands. I have quite a lot of Tillig TT setrack so I did some experiments. The circles it makes are perfect. With all the segments pushed firmly together the circle is evenly round and the track lies flat. I repeated the experiment with some OO Peco setrack and the results were the same.I have been very impressed with the Tillig setrack. Although more expensive than the Hornby setrack the difference in quality is very evident.Having aquired quite a bit of Arnold, Tillig and Roco TT locos, rolling stock and track I have to say the quality is excellent and item for item puts the initial Hornby releases to shame (granted there is price difference). Hopefully, the Hornby quality will improve. Given their ownership of Arnold I am surprised that Hornby didn't take advantage of the expertise that clearly exists at Arnold when designing their UK TT range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 Spot on SM & TT-ManCharlie Bishop did ‘spoil’ his broadcast with the anti TT rant and childish comment that the scale isn’t new, Triang did it … If I was at Peco I would seriously review having him as a front man for the brand …. Who also make TT120 track and accessories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-Man Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 It's surprising how many people seem to feel 'threatened' by British TT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Must be the perverted idea of having the correct gauge for the scale. All rather foreign not like your proper, traditional British 00...Next thing we know the Germans will be making a BR 05 and taking the record back from Mallard.The only thing that will prevent this is good old British (Chinese actually) roller coaster track... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2507 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Does anyone know if this problem is only with radius three track included in the sets or is it repeated in radius 1,2,4 & 6 track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I don't know for sure but I suspect that it is mainly a problem with the sets.In a way its easier if you buy the track only - if it's no good it's a very simple decision to send it back (sort of the same with the train set but you could be waiting for ages for a replacement...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Kent Biker Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Has anybody compared these errant Hornby curves with the Tillig equivalent? I believe they are supposed to be the same geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I've just put my R3 circle from the Easterner set together on a round table. Yes there was a little bit of adverse camber and a slight overlap when completing the circle (less than 10mm), so I took each piece and gently flexed it against the curve as I think someone's previously mentioned elsewhere. Just enough to feel the rails move slightly in the sleepers. Each piece now sits flat on the tabletop. I put it back together again and the camber is cured, plus no obvious dog-legs at the joints so I don't think there's an actual geometry error just a production/assembly issue, maybe just the temperature at time of assembly?To be honest it's no worse than any other sectional track I've played with over the decades in Z, N, 00 or G :) There's always a little bit of misalignment that's easily dealt with.Laying it to a marked centreline and gluing/pinning it down and it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT-Man Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Has anybody compared these errant Hornby curves with the Tillig equivalent? I believe they are supposed to be the same geometry. Read my post earlier in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_watts1 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Been playing with my trains and to the unaided eye the 4th rad curves seem OK, maybe it's just the train set 3rd rad ones that are the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Matchett Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I unpinned some of my 2nd radius curves and formed a circle with the remaining unpinned ones. The circle was fine, and Blink Bony ran smoothly round the oval formed later.The 3rd radius curves are a different matter, but they are cheap and I shall order some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge1965 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 CM,How do you know the ones Hornby have in stock are any different? Or have i missed that bit of info?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Can’t imagine Hornby placed a separate order for R3 track for sets versus direct supply. Therefore it’s likely that if the track in sets is faulty, all R3 will be faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 It was said some time back that H had been building up stocks in their warehouse prior to the delivery of the sets. It could be that these were manufactured a bit more carefully? Who really knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMR248 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 And, of course, Sam ordered his before the set to make his baseboard video and he didn't mention anything (OK, not a very convincing argument...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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