Bewildered...convert DC layout to DCC

[john_whitworth]

I've read a few guides online, and watched the Hornby videos, but still cannot really get the answers I need. My current layout was originally started as something simple for my son, essentially the Trakmat layout but on a permanent board - though by using AnyRail, I modified the layout to include some more sidings running off of a turntable. If there's anything fundamentally wrong with the track layout, please don't tell me, as it's too late to change that now! grin

The layout is 6' x 4'. I've had everything working, just never got round to permanently wiring everything up, as things started to get confusing trying to work out how to gather things all up to an external connection point on the board (the board is heavy, and generally lives upright against a wall, so all controllers would be plugged in each time (HM2000 and my own points/turntable control device). From what I understand, DCC will simplify this a lot, though I will be doing a little more underboard wiring.

Now I believe that the accessory decoders operate 4 devices each, and as I have one turntable and six sets of points, I'd need two accessory decoders.

What I don't really understand is how I power the track. I have read talk of 'boosters', but this doesn't seem to get any mention on Hornby at all. I also know that I need point clips on all points, to permanently power all track I guess? If I needed capacitor discharge circuits, would one do for all points, or would it be one per set of points? I believe with the non-DCC method, I would have been using just one capacitor discharge circuit?

But as for powering the track, do I need multiple power inputs, or is the one 15v AC supply OK, but would need several track clips around the layout?

Also, now seeing HM7000 on the horizon, I am further bamboozled. I'd really like to get an HST set with Valenta sounds - I know the decoders can still be had. And it doesn't look like Valenta is in the HM7000 list as yet. If I buy the last generation of digital decoders (8-pin I think), will anything new be able to run alongside the system? I am looking at getting the DCC Elite controller as a starting point, and possibly the HM7000 dongle in the future.

We've got a right old mix of locos that would gradually need upgrading to digital. Modern ones include some of the club locos, The Captain Tom Moore and six Thomas engines. I'm pretty sure all of those will convert, with or without sound. I then have a 1980s Lima Class 42, and a couple of very old Tri-ang locos (Suburban SR Emu R156 and Trans-Continental R55). Are these very old locos even DCC convertible, or just best left to a DC layout?

[Fishmanoz]

Hi John, let’s start with:

• there is nothing wrong with your layout
• in principle, all your locos will convert to DCC, some will be more difficult to do than others

Now to going DCC. You can do this at varying levels of complexity with the more complex (make a DCC bus under your board and connect droppers from your track to it) maybe being more reliable but not necessarily so. Therefore, let’s start simple.

First level of simplicity - given you have no DCC yet, going with the HM7000 series is an absolute no brainer. Use it in all of your locos you convert (no more difficult to fit an HM7000 than any other decoder). Then you don’t need to buy an Elite (unless you decide you like knobs down the track). Your controller is the free downloaded app to your phone or tablet.

That covers all of your locos, now the track - make all of your track live with DCC point clips. Now you need to power it and you have options (we’ll get to the TT below):

• one power connection will suffice. If you are already connecting with a power track (and maybe additional power clips but not essential), keep using exactly what you have. No need to convert to DCC if using HM7000 because no DCC signals go through the track. You can convert if you wish but not essential (flip open black cover between the rails and remove the capacitor soldered across the rails)
• for power, you can use the PSU of your exisiting DC controller (controller itself goes in the bottom drawer for now). You can connect it to the track using the HM7000 adaptor cable
• But if it is a basic set controller, the PSU will not have enough power, so into the bottom drawer with the controller. If it’s a more capable controller (maybe HM6000?), you can use the PSU
• if you need more power, buy the HM7000 track bundle of PSU and adaptor cable as the simplest
• if you know your way around power supplies and soldering, a laptop supply (around 4 Amps up to 19 volts) with suitable connector with conversion cable or soldered to the track is cheaper, but up to you

Now your points and you have options and I’ll cover simpler options:

• keep doing what you are doing now, whether manual or switch operated with point motors. One CDU will suffice and nothing here for the TT
• more automated - the HM7000 won’t run them, at least not yet. I suggest you go HM6010 which is the current Hornby recommendation with HM7000. Heaps of info on it on this site and in the HM | DC HM6000 forum
• beyond that - there’s a whole world of suppliers and systems you can source but more cost and complexity to set up from a beginner perspective

Finally your TT. What brand is it? If Hornby R070, there’s an FAQ covering its conversion to DCC in the sticky thread FAQs at the top of this forum (suggest you don’t use Hornby’s method although it will work in your case). You will need to fit an HM7000-6 or -8 to run it as a loco through the app. You do not need to worry about slip ring polarity reversal as all of your sidings off it are terminating sidings. You only need to separately power the sidings if you want sound from locos to continue all the time, otherwise don’t bother.

If your TT is another brand, you’ll need to follow its instructions for DCC operation.

Does that sound like a plan? It’s all you need to do. It gets you running initially with all your DCC Ready locos having a socket fitted, putting an HM7000 decoder in each of them. They will mostly need an HM7000-8 or -8TXS for sound. you need to check which socket is in each to be converted though then match to the correct decoder.

If the sound files aren’t available immediately, they likely will be soon (there’s a current list in one of the threads in the HM7000 forum).

If not DCC Ready, let’s cover them separately.

[john_whitworth]

This is a great reply... Many thanks. It's certainly let me see the wood for the trees, and things now seem a whole lot simpler (and cheaper). I will likely get the HM7000 PSU bundle and a couple of HM6010 to control the points.

The HM7000 system definitely does seem to be the more obvious choice, and my procrastination may have been helpful! blush

The TT is a Hornby one, and I'll do the further reading on the forum as to how to control it.

Now the biggest problem is just waiting for the HM7000 app, but I guess I can at least just get on with the HM6010 side of things for now.

I've actually also realised that we have a complete Harry Potter set, which I might use to do a trial run of the whole thing first, rather than modifying the big layout straight away. That should give me a better understanding of what's going on.

Think all the bigger Thomas trains are 8 pin decoders. Harry Potter, not so sure, but wouldn't be surprised if the same.

Thanks again

John

[Fishmanoz]

Nearly all Hornby locos are 8-pin, smaller ones like 0-6-0s may be 4-pin or possibly 6-pin.

The later Harry Potter, DCC Ready are 8-pin.

All you need to do is take off the bodies and look.

By the time you have bought any HM7000 decoders, I’m guessing the app will be available. I have good reason to guess this. So no interim planning needed. Only if you want non-sound, only TXS sound variants available now.

[96RAF]

If going for accessory control using the HM6010 then it has a dedicated port (#4) beefed up to run a turntable, albeit it is effectively an on-off switch that runs the turning motor in one direction only.

Then the conversion to DCC becomes more simple. There is a guide on the forum as to how to do it. All you will need is the track wiring mods not the decoder installation part.

[john_whitworth]

Thanks guys. I've ordered just enough to try things out on the Harry Potter set to start with, and then I can order the extra bits to put it all onto the main set. It will be useful to power the turntable from the HM6010 initially, although ultimately I think I'd prefer two-way operation, but that expense can wait. I've renewed my Hornby Club membership, as think it's practically paid for itself already - although some of the stuff is available cheaper from third parties, with the 15% reward points (and HM7000 virtual exclusivity as of now), it's about the same direct from Hornby (particularly as I have EH membership for the additional discount).

I'd also ordered a 2023 catalogue which arrived today, and the Valenta sounds are listed for HM7000, so that's another tick in the box. I'm sure the Harry Potter train will sound great with Valenta effects! laughing

[96RAF]

Harry Potter is a steam loco and Valenta is a diesel engine option in a Class 43 HST.

Eventually the 6010 firmware may be updated to allow two-way operation.

[john_whitworth]

I know Valenta is diesel, and Harry Potter is steam - but can silly combinations not be played around with?

[96RAF]

I know Valenta is diesel, and Harry Potter is steam - but can silly combinations not be played around with?

 

 

Rule 1 - your train set your choice.

[john_whitworth]

Rule 1 - your train set your choice.

 

 

Well yes, but I suppose what I meant was - there's nothing in a steam loco preventing other loco sounds from being generated? I'll only be playing around to start with, having just converted the one loco for now.

[LTSR_NSE]

Hi John,

Hornby have stated that the App will allow users to install the various sound files to the HM7k decoders themselves.

I can’t imagine there will be any restrictions on which file you are able to choose - since the decoders won’t have any means of knowing what loco they have been plugged into.

Since the Hogwarts Express is a fictional locomotive powered by magic, how can anyone say what it should sound like?

[Fishmanoz]

I’d suggest JKR has first dibs on that.

[Goathland]

Since the Hogwarts Express is a fictional locomotive powered by magic, how can anyone say what it should sound like?

 

 

Well, the films give some clue I suppose but as with all magic it is what you do with it so you can pick any sound you like. Having said all that my GWR 225 set runs with Valenta (125) sound because I liked the train and I like the sound but had nothing else to put the sound into except perhaps a Flying Scotsman or three. My Hogwarts Castle came TTS fitted so it is Hall class soundwise and not Castle class sound - there's magic for you.