Chris98 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 (edited) "In Hornby TT:120 I'm going to guess the class 08 with its outside frames and rods is probably the widest, but some of the European TT locos may exceed that" Oh no.........I do not have an 08..... I have run the duchess alongside all the edges and there fine with a bit to spare. The platforms are not coming up again! It's been hard work. Edited July 7 by Chris98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Wobbly lines appear. My viaduct had perfectly straight track when it was laid, but we seem to have suffered some subsidence in the Twizell Valley! Wood, card and lots of water from scenery application and ballasting can play havoc with the best laid track! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 3 Author Share Posted August 3 The waiting is finally over. I have now received the parts I needed to get moving again with my layout. Not much change above the layout apart from making, fitting and reballasting all the platforms plus ballasting other areas of the layout. I have been busy fitting over 24 digital IP point motors some of which have been an absolute nightmare to get right with one set of points being replaced and some buthery of the baseboard needed. Two days later and they are fitted. There are still 4 or 5 left to fit on the upper level but I need a rest. Next job for another day is to clean all the lower level track as it has pva glue, paint, dust etc on it. Then I can start running locos on it again. Then it's time to finish all the scenery 😀 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 Today was a negative day in the hobby. Track nearly all cleaned and working. Just the two incline lines to do. I am hoping somebody may know the answer to this dilemma. My atholl went round the track the smoothest and without fault prior to today. Now the tender derails at the same points every time. I use my blink bonny and it's faultless. William whitelaw was also faultless on every bit of track including the points atholl de rails on but due to my incompetence it got stuck in a hard to reach area and I had forgot I had made a removable bridge to gain access. Spent hours trying to get it out and It now needs repair 🤨 Learning everyday, just not today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMD Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) That is odd @Chris98. So much of the infuriating part is when something seems to be happening for no reason, or at least without anything having changed. But keep logical - something must have changed. It's possible the gauging is slightly undersize on the tend, and it has worked itself out of size further by a slight knock somewhere. Or else - is it some stray ballast on your track? The tiniest bit might just be enough to upset on item of rolling stock, even if others are fine. Do inspect the guide rails, and the frogs, run it as slowly as possible to see exactly where it derails. If your phone does slo-mo video that can really help too. Edited August 9 by GMD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_watts1 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 @Chris98Since you mention the Duchess has only started derailing after cleaning the track, I'd check thay point and make sure it's not been damaged or fouled in some way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 (edited) Thanks for the replies. Should have said that my atholl went back to hornby for repair. Since its return it now has this issue and it is not as fast as it was or smooth. My previous video shows it running and it was very very smooth. I will be trying again and looking at the problem area soon. Perhaps a combined return of this and Will Whitelaw to margate is on the cards. How do I ensure that the gauging is right? Edited August 10 by Chris98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Gauging has been an overlooked part of getting models to run in TT:120, I sometimes felt I was going on about it too much! In many cases people were fitting powerbanks on locos, hacking bits off when setting the wheel back to back cures most running issues. I have noticed Hornby are setting the B2B to the same figure I found gave good reliable running, 10.4-10.45mm. Previously models were coming set at 10.2mm, then allow for some discrepancies on top. I did a tricks and tips video on why it matters etc. To set the gauge via the B2B, you need an accurate ‘gauge’ (engineering term) I found some precisely set options on EBay, a tool called a ‘pin gauge’ It’s a steel bar that is precision ground to a certified dimension, you can place the end between the wheels and open them out to that setting by twisting the bar. I also found a set of pliers on Amazon that had (on ones I got) exactly the correct width across the back of the jaws to achieve a 10.43mm B2B that seems to be the sweet spot. If you use the forum search tool you should be able to find quite a few conversations and links etc. Don’t be tempted with the original DCC Concepts B2B gauge, it’s undersize @10.2mm for more modern TT:120 track and wheel profiles. I found both my Duchesses benefitted from resetting the tender B2B. On one crossover in the station the tender would climb up the rail and derail Itself in reverse. Using the pin gauge cured it. 👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew-372848 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Rallymatt said: I found both my Duchesses benefitted from resetting the tender B2B. On one crossover in the station the tender would climb up the rail and derail Itself in reverse. Using the pin gauge cured it. 👍 How timely. I was running my Duchess of Atholl yesterday and had a reverse tender derailment, so no need to scour the forum for a solution now! ps I have my ‘pin gauge’, acquired after seeing your previous post on the subject. Edited August 10 by Andrew-372848 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin-369195 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 @Rallymatt - Does it matter if the pin gauge is 10.4mm or 10.43mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin-369195 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 @Rallymatt - Does it matter if the pin gauge is 10.4mm or 10.43mm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 Perhaps a vid or pictures may help as this seems to be an important aspect and I am too thick to understand 😂😂😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin-369195 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 @Chris98 - A couple of links: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 10.4 - 10.43mm is still a very small range but anything in there seems to work well on both Hornby and Peco track. Peco points are more sensitive to gauge than the Hornby ones. The great thing with something like a Pin Gauge is that it is a hardened precision ground certified tool, so you can always guarantee consistency, if you look in the specifications it will tell you the ‘operating temperature’! Although unless your layout is at extremes of temperature, I wouldn’t worry too much 🤣 With a range, it means a better chance of finding one in stock too, they are ground to within 100’s of mm for each increment in size. I think one supplier was slightly overwhelmed by demand! Just to add, you are using the precise diameter inside the wheels to achieve the correct B2B, by tuning the pin gauge it will slide nicely onto the inside faces of the wheels and do remember to rotate the wheels too so the gauging is consistent round the wheel. So far I have never found necessary to re- set the drive wheels on a steam loco either. The pliers method is also very effective, if you have a good quality set of vernier calipers (not cheap digital ones!) you can check across the jaws of a regular set of pliers, buy accident I found Draper Redline one from a 3 pack set were spot on, the backs have a chamfer that helps open up tight wheel sets and you can gently squeeze the jaws inside a wheel set to open them up. I can’t guarantee the pliers will always be the same size though, Pin Gauge will be what is etched on it though. Try on a wagon to get hang of doing it first 👍 Edited August 10 by Rallymatt 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 Thanks for your replies, very helpfull. This may just sort out my current frustrations with derailings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilmson Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 On 07/07/2024 at 21:00, Rallymatt said: Wobbly lines appear. My viaduct had perfectly straight track when it was laid, but we seem to have suffered some subsidence in the Twizell Valley! Wood, card and lots of water from scenery application and ballasting can play havoc with the best laid track! 😅 Now at least I remember why ballasting tracks is considered one of the last activities to be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 A significant milestone for my layout. All the points on the lower level are now connected and working. I scratched my head for ages trying to workout how to throw the cobalt motors the other way using "197" very frustrating! 20240822_185729.mp4 Anyway as you can see in the video this is the first time since ballasting/grassing/building tunels & rocks that the loco's (trigo,blink bonny, silver king & abercorn) have run without fault on all 4 loops. It has been a challenging period with all the derailing issues. I still have loco's including mallard and atholl that derail whilst others run seemlessly. I will be checking the gauging (thanks Rallymat) or sending them back to margate 😁 Just 6 upper level points left to fit then I can move on. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Great to trains chuffing their way round. It’s will all come together 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 (edited) I need to add point motors (6) underneath the upper level points as per the pic. I have some MTB MP1's that would be ideal as space is limited but they would need decoders. Any one have any suggestions? Don't really want to pay out on more motors but if no viable decoder then the MTB DP4 could be an option. Edited August 23 by Chris98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Any DCC accessory decoder capable of switching to ground either continously or (preferably adjustable) momentariliy is suited for the purpose. You may need an extra DC-Supply ( 8-16V=) for the point motor if the decoder does not provide the needed COM(+) supply output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 Thanks for your reply. Any examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateshci Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I'm a bit puzzled. You have digitally controlled points already, don't you? If so, use the same make of decoders again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 I have used cobalt digital. Obviously they have built in decoders. They are too big for where I need to fit 6 more motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Nice to see layout feature on Hornby YouTube feed 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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