Flying Scotsman R3991ss running issues

[malcolm-1277736]

I finally received my long awaited Flying Scotsman in June and was initially delighted with the detail, sound and steam - well done Hornby.

However after a week of perfect running the loco developed a fault and would not move forwards or backwards - The sound appeared to work but I could not read the decoder to perform a se-set so I returned it to the retailer who very promptly replaced it (within 7 days) and I started again. After a day the smoke box door fell off and I had to re-glue it in place - (no problem but it should not have occurred)- 3 days later the loco would not move forwards or backwards - I noticed the screw attaching the front nearside coupling rod was missing. It had come 'unscrewed' but very luckily I found it beside the track and was able to repair the model and all worked well again. (no problem but it should not have occurred). After 3 weeks the loco failed and every time it was put on the track it created a short circuit. The tender and decoder were fine and the decoder could be read as long as it was detached from the loco. I have sent it back to the retailer who indicated I may not be the only one having problems with this model and that he may have to give me a refund rather than replace it.

I have approx 20 hornby loco models and apart from a B12 (where I eventually had to replace the motor with a '9F X1083' motor) all have worked well 'out of the box'.

Am I doing something 'wrong' and am I alone with these issues ? 

Any advice would be helpful - I like the model and the steam generator and would rather it worked than my money back !

 

 

[sir john]

Hi Malcolm sorry to hear about your problems no you are not the only one . I had problems with mine out of the box 1 wheel had come of the front bogie and although I  had sound there was no movement. A quick phone call to hornby and it  was on its way back ,they changed the tender chassis,decoder and fitted a new front bogie and since it's been back it's been fine ,the guys at hornby are really good ,I think you will find the smokebox door is a push fit anyway 

John

[96RAF]

It would appear there can be problems with these locos and that the Hornby repair team fettlers can sort them out, but as your 'contract' is with the retailer you are bound by their Ts and Cs which may mean a refund rather than a replacement or repair.

[Britannia Builder]

I bought my Flying Scotsman from a retailer (Rails of Sheffield) but dealt directly with Hornby for the repair. I did as a courtesy email Rails to tell them.

Incidentally although I haven't mentioned it before I had the same problem as Sir John with one of the bogie wheels lying loose in the box, but I just pressed it back on. It's a strange problem - can't see what could cause it to fall off in the box.

Regards, John

[malcolm-1277736]

Many thanks for your advice /help - I thought the smokebox was a push fit but mine just would not stay in - hence I glued it.

I have since wondered if the problem relates to 'overfilling' the resevoir and water getting into the motor? To the best of my knowledge I have not done this but there is no visual gauge and no real way of knowing if the resevoir is empty. I have never had water overflowing from the 'bung hole' and have not noticed any elsewhere.

 

[sir john]

@Britannia Builder I originally replaced the wheel myself but when I sent it back with a note they replaced it anyway 

John

[Fishmanoz]

Am I mistaken in thinking this FS is fitted with and HM7000 decoder?

If I’m correct, moving the topic to the HM | DCC forum would give Malcolm easy access to all of the fixes/troubleshooting relating to these decoders.  Won’t fix the smoke box door but will get the decoder performing properly. 

[ColinB]

21 hours ago, malcolm-1277736 said:

Many thanks for your advice /help - I thought the smokebox was a push fit but mine just would not stay in - hence I glued it.

I have since wondered if the problem relates to 'overfilling' the resevoir and water getting into the motor? To the best of my knowledge I have not done this but there is no visual gauge and no real way of knowing if the resevoir is empty. I have never had water overflowing from the 'bung hole' and have not noticed any elsewhere.

 

If it doesn't stay in, really it should be a return to Hornby. Rather than gluing which is a bit permanent use something like black tack which is easy to remove.

[LTSR_NSE]

You are correct @Fishmanoz it does include an HM7k decoder.  However the latest fault (loco short-circuiting) sounds more like an electrical component failure (return to Hornby/retailer issue) rather than corruption of a CV or the App.

Edited August 13 by LTSR_NSE

[LesXRN]

The smoke box door on mine was off and loose when I first opened the box, which did surprise me a little. Soon fixed.

The only problem I've had is water leaking from the bottom of the smoke box, despite being cautious to add the correct amout.

[sir john]

42 minutes ago, LesXRN said:

The smoke box door on mine was off and loose when I first opened the box, which did surprise me a little. Soon fixed.

The only problem I've had is water leaking from the bottom of the smoke box, despite being cautious to add the correct amout.

42 minutes ago, LesXRN said:

 

I @LesXRN I would ring customer services and have a chat about it don't think it should be leaking never noticed it on mine

[LesXRN]

3 hours ago, sir john said:

I @LesXRN I would ring customer services and have a chat about it don't think it should be leaking never noticed it on mine

It doesn't do it every time John and there are posts stating that a couple of CV's can be altered. I'll see how she runs when my new layout is ready.

[DJN]

 My advice would be to keep your Loco, if you  like it & think you could diagnose its electrical issues. I have a Black 5 with the well-documented loco/tender connection issues and received it back from Hornby  with "adjustments" that failed to fix the underlying issue.

  I decided to fix it myself,  because I really like this beautiful Loco and couldn't  face the hassle of returning it a second time. 

Good luck with your Scotsman
🧰

[Bulleidboy]

Not mentioned here, but it is in the instructions. If, having filled your FS with the recommended 3ml of water, and possibly the 1ml top-up, you decide not to run your loco for the full 20-30minutes steaming time, the water can be removed by inserting the pipette into the water filler hole, in as compressed state as you can get it, and it will suck the water out. I have done this and it is very effective, and once all water was removed, the loco steamed for about one minute and then stopped - so I assume the tank/reservoir is now dry.

Edited August 28 by Bulleidboy

[ColinB]

45 minutes ago, Bulleidboy said:

Not mentioned here, but it is in the instructions. If, having filled your FS with the recommended 3ml of water, and possibly the 1ml top-up, you decide not to run your loco for the full 20-30minutes steaming time, the water can be removed by inserting the pipette into the water filler hole, in as compressed state as you can get it, and it will suck the water out. I have done this and it is very effective, and once all water was removed, the loco steamed for about one minute and then stopped - so I assume the tank/reservoir is now dry.

Thank you that is useful information to know. I ran my one around the layout for twenty minutes to get rid of the water.

[Paul-380474]

I wonder whether the increased complexity of these 'steam generator' models is having an adverse effect on Quality Control. I had to send my Scotsman back after it developed  a fault after just a few minutes running- the electrical connection between tender (and HM7000) and the loco (and the motor) became unreliable. Certainly, something in that plug in connection between the two is probably not robust enough. Several people on here have had the same issue. Replacing it does not necessarily solve the underlying problem. I treat this engine now as if it is made of uncooked spaghetti, putting no strain on at all between the tender and loco. Heaven help me if I need to part the two (to install the crew for instance).

[ColinB]

5 minutes ago, Paul-380474 said:

I wonder whether the increased complexity of these 'steam generator' models is having an adverse effect on Quality Control. I had to send my Scotsman back after it developed  a fault after just a few minutes running- the electrical connection between tender (and HM7000) and the loco (and the motor) became unreliable. Certainly, something in that plug in connection between the two is probably not robust enough. Several people on here have had the same issue. Replacing it does not necessarily solve the underlying problem. I treat this engine now as if it is made of uncooked spaghetti, putting no strain on at all between the tender and loco. Heaven help me if I need to part the two (to install the crew for instance).

The type of connector they used, even in a fixed rack of instruments causes issues, so you can imagine the issues with something that is moveable. I have the Flying Scotsman and mine seems ok at the moment but I do worry about it. Trouble is for it to be half reliable, the connections need to be gold plated, which obviously they are not. I imagine they looked at Dapol and thought "they do it so it must be ok" not realising the Dapol setup is a lot different, although they use a similar type of connection. It will be interesting when Rails/Dapol release their reworked A4 to see how they get over the problem. If you want to control that many functions within the loco, you need to move the decoder to the loco, but that would have involved more design which Hornby didn't want to do.

[sir john]

@ColinB the difference is colin the dapol manors have the decoder in the loco boiler ,i think the connection to the tender is for pickups and the extra speaker .I have the scotsman and although its been back to hornby and works ok i do wonder if it will stay that way

 

[ColinB]

5 hours ago, sir john said:

@ColinB the difference is colin the dapol manors have the decoder in the loco boiler ,i think the connection to the tender is for pickups and the extra speaker .I have the scotsman and although its been back to hornby and works ok i do wonder if it will stay that way

 

That is exactly what the issue is. If your track is perfect then most times you wouldn't notice the tender pickups not working. Similarly the speaker connections are only for the extra one in the tender. As I said before a lot of people probably wouldn't notice. Trouble is Hornby rush this stuff out without adequate testing, I can see why, but it is costing them a lot of money in warranty. My ones for the moment work ok, I was looking to see what alternatives you could use, if mine ever goes wrong.