Mucklestoneuk Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Hi, I am currently in the design stage for my layout. I am using fourth and third radius curves for the main lines however I also want to add a third loop. The third loop will be a sort of branch line (even though it is a loop) but to fit in my third loop I will have to use a 180 degree loop of first radius curves, however most will be second radius. I only intend to run small locos on it like shunters almost. I know 1st radius are not recommended but being as I only want to use small engines I was wondering if this would be considered acceptable in this case? I hope someone with more experience than myself could advise me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 0-4-0's will be fine and 0-6-0's such as the railroad 08, J83, and some 4-6-0's such as the B12 and a lot of margate made large locos made before the "Top Link" era, but not the superdetail Hornby 08 as it will too tight a radius for the loco and just about all the China made superdetail large locos will be excluded from 1st radius curves.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 1st radius is fine for quarry lines and rural branchlines where mainly small short wheelbase locos are used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucklestoneuk Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Thanks for advice guys. To be honest that is what I thought but wanted to check. I will still try to squeeze in second radius ones if I can because it is always nice to be able to run larger locos if needed/wanted but I think this might bring it too close to the main lines and ruin the effect I am going for. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Just wanted to mention, i have the Railroad Mallard DCC fitted and it copes with 1st radious realy well. Has done from day one last year as i didnt know better then i just ran it. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGee Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I ahve no probs with any of my Pacifics on 1st radii, either Margate or China built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Interesting, that's unusual for China made pacifics as most of them need 2nd radius as the bare minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 The railroad A4 is more forgiving as dude2112 has found out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Mucklestone - Don't take your track to the edge of the baseboard, unless you have it at ground level. Leave a bit of space for derailments, rather than have expensive bits toppling to the hard floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucklestoneuk Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 2e0dtoeric said: Mucklestone - Don't take your track to the edge of the baseboard, unless you have it at ground level. Leave a bit of space for derailments, rather than have expensive bits toppling to the hard floor. Thanks it seems an obvious thing now you have said it but you never see it mentioned! Mine will go near the edge of the boar in a few places but it will (eventually) have back boards there that would stop this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Mucklestoneuk said: Thanks it seems an obvious thing now you have said it but you never see it mentioned! Mine will go near the edge of the boar in a few places but it will (eventually) have back boards there that would stop this. If you have track near an edge that won't have a back board such as at the front of the layout I suggest you fix strips of Perspex about 2 inches high along the edge. It allows you to see the track ok and keeps little fingers from touching anything. If you lay the track properly you shouldn't have any derailments. I can honestly say that apart from the occasional front bogie or wagon lifting off the track I have never had anything fall off the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John East Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The son of Triangman said: Interesting, that's unusual for China made pacifics as most of them need 2nd radius as the bare minimum. I bought the BR standard 4MT when it first appeared but apart from a test run have only just brought it into service. It definitely does NOT like 2nd radius and the problem seems to be the tender front fouling the loco chassis. It runs fine on 3rd radius. The couppling is on the maximum but seems to need just a millimetre more. Am I alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyCube Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 John East said: Am I alone? No, I have several locos that don't much like 2nd radius, even ones with shorter wheelbases that you might think would be fine. I think its inevitable that as models become more realistic, they will have less tolerance for tighter 'train set' curves. Must suck if you've got an established layout using 2nd radius corners though. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Would sucking them make them a bit more flexible or something then, SC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyCube Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Quite possibly. Just be careful not to swallow any oil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da4472vid Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 BE careful as some stock will were out over time on 1st rad bends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm surprised the superdetailed Hornby 08 won't manage 1st radius curves as it has such a short wheelbase. I have a blue box version that copes easily. Incidentally, the J94 austerity 0-6-0 also copes well with 1st radius. I once made a minimum space industrial layout which was only 2ft wide, and the curves were about 10" radius, and the J94 managed fine (though I had to remove its coupling hook). The L&Y pug can go even tighter still, and with a feedback controller it maintains a constant speed. On my mainline I have 2nd and 3rd radius, and some of the bigger locos don't like second radius. What is frustrating is that two identical models are inconsistent - must be something to do with wheel back-to-back measurements being different, but I don't like to mess with the wheels too much in case I spoil an otherwise smooth chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Prior to (approximately) 2000, radius 1 curves were widely used and loco's and rolling stock were made to negotiate that radius. Early Mk3 coaches, for example, were purposely shortened for that purpose and 6-coupled locomotives had non- or semi-flanged centre driving wheels. Numerous models still in the range date from pre-2000 and therefore have the ability to deal with tight curves but I acknowledge it is difficult, outside the Railroad range, to know which those are.Since around 2000, there has been a greater move towards accuracy rather than compromise and, as examples, long modern image coaches (Mk3 & Mk4) are unlikely to negotiate rad 1 curves (and if they do, would look somewhat silly in the process with large overhangs at the ends and severe cut-in in the centre). Plus, with coach couplings now body- rather than bogie-mounted the angle between those on adjacent vehicles is increased, possibly exceeding the couplings' ability to pivot, if they can. Also, the larger diameter wheels now fitted in coaches may foul solebars if the bogie is required to pivot excessively.With regard to steam locomotives, a good number of current 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 tank loco's should be ok on rad 1 curves but tender loco's will be restricted by both the length of their rigid flanged-wheel wheelbase and the distance between the loco and its tender, ruling out almost all of them.Most pre-2000 diesel & electric loco's, railcars and multiple units, including those acquired from Dapol and Lima are ok on rad 1 and most are now in the Railroad range.However, this can be but a very short and generalised reply with numerous exceptions, and it is probably best to abide by Hornby's strictures in the catalogue and on the website to err on the safe side. Hopefully the existing inaccuracies will have been corrected in Monday's new 2022 information, with greater emphasis on detailed product specifications following much criticism this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bexhill Donkey Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 There are two things you need to understand about 1st Radius curves - the first thing is the wheelbase of the vehicle and the second thing is the lineside clearance. If the wheelbase is too large for a 1st radius curve, then the vehicle will derail. However, if the wheelbase is within limits but the length of the vehicle is not, then the vehicle will go around a 1st radius curve, but it will not clear lineside objects. The Eurostar for example will go around a 1st radius curve, but if you have something such as a signal beside the track then the train will hit it. This fact always needs to be borne in mind when fitting a 1st radius curve. A common beginner mistake is to fit a tunnel on a curve only to find subsequently that many trains will not clear the tunnel! You can get around this by fitting a larger tunnel mouth. Similarly with signals, gantries, level signs and the like - if you fit a 1st radius curve you must move these objects further away from the track. If the model is not recommended for a 1st radius curve, it will say a minimum 438mm radius on the box. If it doesn't say anything, then it is usually all right. Some items such as tank locos not intended for a 1st radius curve may go around it with the flanges binding against the rails which is undesirable as this will cause unnecessary wear on the wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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