dude2112 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I have today been lent a select controller too try and sort out my blue box blue train, after sussing it out i must admit it points me more in the direction of going DCC. I currently run four 8ft by 8ft ovals so am i correct in thinking that the Elite would be better for me ? Also i have two drive engines on this train and am programming them together as one runs forward and one backwards, is this correct useage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 The difference between the select and the elite include:- 1. Power: Elite=3A to track; Select=1A to track 2. DCC config: Elite=all CVs; Select=few CVs 3. Throttles (aka knobs): Elite=2; Select=1 4. Computer control: Elite=Yes; Select=No 5. NMRA compliance: Elite=Yes; Select=Not sure but don't think so If you have 4 x 8x8 loops then potentially you will want to run 3 or more locos. in this situation I would go for the Elite. If you are interested in Railmaster or similar then you ned dthe elite. If all you want to do is run a loco or two then the select is good. if you want more volume or sophistication then the Elite is best. It is up to you. Do you really have two drive engines - not a dummy? if two then yes you set the reverse bit in CV29 (I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yes Greg, Midland Pullman, both ends are drive units. I currently run 4 trains on 4 ovals at the same time and have a couple of DCC fitted locos including my Mallard and the one i have mentioned. The rest are DCC ready and have a total of 11 locos so would really like to get a grip on this DCC thing. Most are Hornby so will try thier chips first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 running 4 locos at once (even with one motor per train) is either elite territory OR the select with the optional 4A transformer. the standard (8429) decoder form Hornby is rated at 500mA continuous. the enhanced decoder (8245) is good for 1A continuous. google "dcc stall current" to help on decoder selection. be aware that old motors draw more current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Good comparison by Greg and No, Select not NMRA compliant so may not work with anything non-Hornby. You will need more then the 1Amp to be able to run more than 3 locos at once but you can do this just by buying the 4Amp supply used with the Elite. But given you are starting from scratch, my recommendation is not to go Select but go either Elite or, if you have a computer available and you are inclined to use it, wait a couple of months and go eLink and Railmaster. Elite and eLink have the same comprehensive capability but eLink much cheaper if you have the computer. I've recently summarised a list of quite simple things the Select can't do and Elite can in another thread. You might like to do a search for it. Having said that, geochoice will disagree with me strongly and is a Select fan, but he is the one who got a lemon when he bought the Elite and will not hear of another. He runs 2 Selects with one a Walkabout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Just checked where to find my summary. It's at https://www.hornby.com/forums/hornby-forums/hornby-digital/4463/ in a thread titled dss ready / dss fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Hi guys, I am now off shift again so hope to catch up on the answers I receive, thanks so far... I am currently checking which pin decoders I need for which engine I have. I have noticed that my Hornby boxes and indeed info sheets do not tell me so I am opening them up to check, the first one I opened was my Princess class loco which I have now found out has DCC sound fitted. The diagram in the box shows the 'chip' piggybacked with the decoder but I cannot find anymore info on here so will do a web search later for more info, obviously if this train has sound fitted I want too get this one done first too sell the idea too ma lady as she bought me the train and will agree with my DCC switchover... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 dude2112 said: ...Snip... . The diagram in the box shows the 'chip' piggybacked with the decoder but I cannot find anymore info on here ...Snip...... Err... "Chip" and "Decoder" are one of the same! I wish the term 'Chip' wasn't ever used. It means absolutely nothing! Chip = Potato slice fried in hot oil. Or an "Electronic Chip" which is an Integrated circuit device. Not the whole circuit. Decoder = Electronic circuit board which controls a locos motor and any lighting and sounds etc You do not "Piggy back" any decoders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 dude2112 said: I have today been lent a select controller too try and sort out my blue box blue train, after sussing it out i must admit it points me more in the direction of going DCC. I currently run four 8ft by 8ft ovals so am i correct in thinking that the Elite would be better for me ? Also i have two drive engines on this train and am programming them together as one runs forward and one backwards, is this correct useage ? To add.. If you wish to reverse the normal direction of travel of a loco this is carried out by altering the value of CV29. But the Select does this without the user knowing they are adjusting CV29. See Select manual page 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Flashbang, I have sorted out the running of my dual running train and its fine now, as for the piggybacking of the decoder I can only tell you what is in the diagram with my loco..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 There should be no "Piggy Backing" of any decoder in any locos diagram! If you want to send a link to the actual drawing we can look at it. I would suggest you may need to look closer, as its likely to be a socket with either 21 pins or an 8 pin sockets the decoder plugs into being shown - 8 pin or 21 pin depending on maker and whether sound is fitted etc. Or for a DCC Ready loco the dc blanking plug is fitted, which is then removed when a decoder is fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I have the 2 Hornby Princess Royals with sound. Which one are you talking about, Dude? I haven't looked yet but the instructions for both are probably the same. I can then fish out the relevant instructions for your loco to see what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I apologise in advance if I have got this wrong and I now think I have Graskie, now that you have mentioned a blanking plate. Sorry too Flashbang too if so. The loco is the Princess Arthur of Connaught, now I have had a shower and woken up better I believe you are right. Above the diagram it says DCC ready/sound fitted, I think I missed the part about removing the blanking plate but cant honestly remember it saying that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think you will find the maintenance sheet is https://www.hornby.com/filelibrary/download/?FileID=211 this loco comes in both DCC Ready and Sound versions with the decoder in the tender. The DCC ready version has the standard 8 pin plug with a blanking plate fitted. The Sound version has a direct plug decoder fitted into a direct plug socket. It is not piggy-backed but simply plugged in. There is no chip and decoder, just a decoder and a direct plug socket. You will also see in my link on page 1 to the differences between Select and Elite is that Select can't play the full range of sounds in a loco as it can handle only 10 functions, sound locos have more then 10 sounds and each sound is a function. So again, I'd recommend either the Elite, or eLink plus Railmaster if you are inclined to go fully computer control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thank you Fishmanoz, can I be very stupid and ask which decoder I need for this engine as I am buying tomorrow a DCC controller and some decoders too for other engines....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Yes, it looks like you have model R3015, dude, which is DCC ready with no sound and would therefore have come with just a blanking plate plugged in. The problem is that instructions for a certain class of loco often incorporate all versions and you have to check for just your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thank you for the answers, I will try and sort out which decoder I need. It aint easy, I think the instructions should offer more info, i.e which decoder is needed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You can run all of your modern Hornby locos using the R8249, as long as you want to do just the basics. If you want to get more advanced and start doing fine adjustments on speed tables, starting voltages etc, then the 8249 won't hack it as you can only adjust a minimal number of CVs. If you want to do this stuff, then you can use the Sapphire, or someone else's. If you go with the Select, not Elite, then stick to the 8249 as the Select can't change the advanced CVs anyway. If you have older locos which draw more current, then you will probably need the Sapphire for them too as they will likely burn out the 8249. And this includes if only using the Select, and it will need the 4Amp supply just to run 2 and more old locos. This is just a basic summary but should get you started. I you want to use Sound, you should do some more research first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I have today switched too DCC, my shop didn't have an Elite in stock so bought a G...master 2 controller plus a few 8 pin and 21 pin decoders. I will then have 6 locos out of 11 running on DCC, I must admit its like starting over again. I have also found out that I can upgrade my Princess class loco from 8 pin too 21 pin sound with an adapter plate. cooool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think I will be taking my current DCC controller back tomorrow as ( too me anyway ) its not as user friendly as even the Select I borrowed, maybe I am being picky but for instance the F2 option on my locos is cab lighting. The controller I have says it for the horn and a link check so lights just switch on and off straight away, I have contacted the makers who say I should re-program my decoder. No idea what they on about as this my first DCC experience.... The Select was also smoother on acceleration and speed steps, I will check out the web tonight but think I will have too order the Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traincliff Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Hi Dude2112, I have been looking at this thread and your thread in the General section and I can understand your confusion as a newcomer to dcc. It takes a while to get to grips with the terminology and the logic of the controller operation. You had a measure of success with the Select you borrowed but judging from your layout of multiple ovals and the number and variations of motive power you have you need a more versatile system. I think in your case in my humble opinion the Elite would suit you quite well. The instruction manual is quite straightforward to follow stage by stage and gives you the opportunity to try each stage. There have now been several updates to the firmware all so far free of charge and each has made the Elite again in my opinion even better. Once you have mastered it I dont think you will look back - it is very user friendly. Remember too that this forum is a great source of expertise you can learn from with several very experienced "regulars" to help you along the way. The Elite as others have mentioned is NMRA approved so will work with other manufacturers dcc products and I know you have some of these already. As a final point once you have become competent with the Elite you can if you wish take things a stage further and enjoy controlling your trains from your computer screen and keyboard with Hornby Railmaster. Take it a bit at a time and you will get there. All the best mate and give the Elite a try. Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNoj Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Cliff, very good advice and well put. I have only just got back into the hobby after a 40+ year break and knew nothing about dcc but over the last 8 months have learnt a lot through this forum. I have the Elite plus Railmaster and currently have everything working well but still have much to learn. Good luck Dude2112, take a step at a time and I am sure you will get much pleasure and enjoyment from the hobby along with many frustrations along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think that is good advice from traincliff. I upgraded from the Select to the Elite and found it a great step forward. I have just added Railmaster and this is an incredible piece of kit, because of the ability of a PC to several things at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 dude2112 said: I think I will be taking my current DCC controller back tomorrow as ( too me anyway ) its not as user friendly as even the Select I borrowed, maybe I am being picky but for instance the F2 option on my locos is cab lighting. The controller I have says it for the horn and a link check so lights just switch on and off straight away, I have contacted the makers who say I should re-program my decoder. No idea what they on about as this my first DCC experience.... The Select was also smoother on acceleration and speed steps, I will check out the web tonight but think I will have too order the Elite. Don't forget to consider the eLink option before deciding finally - see my summary post in your thread in General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude2112 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 I have today returned the advance 2 controller and ordered an Elite, I feel sorry for my shop owner as someone else returned an advance 1 at same time but we both agreed that they are too fiddly and a pain. He has a Select on his N Gage layout and has decided too keep his Dynamis as back-up, I have had too borrow a Select again but at least it does what I want it too. I hope i've made the right move..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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