Ist radius curves

[AndyHead78]

From what I have read on some threads in this forum many newer locos struggle with 1st radius curves. Are there any other pieces of track that seem to cause problems and that should be avoided when possible? I am in the process of planning a new layout,

 

and have glanced through the latest track plans book for some ideas. Any info would be appreciated.

[Fishmanoz]

Definitely no first radius unless you are going to limit yourself to 0-4-0 and 0-6-0, avoid 2nd radius if you can, streamline points are better than standard points, particularly straight after a curve. And there are issues with stalling on insulfrog points

 

that can be overcome by using live frog, but not supplied by Hornby.

 

That's a good list to start with. And given Hornby layouts are full of all of those, use them for ideas, not to actually build.

[SkyCube]

As Fishmanoz said, don't use 1st radius at all, and try to avoid 2nd. The gentler the curves the better really. Remember you can use flexitrack instead of set curve pieces, which can also make your line look much better visually. When buying track stick

 

to recognisable brands such as Hornby and Peco, once its all down replacing dodgy track can be a hassle.

 

We're not really supposed to talk about other brands here, but some people have reported problems with Hornby points, so do explore your options

 

in that area. Another company also makes Electrofrog points which eliminate the problem of locos stalling, although they can be more awkward to wire up. You might want to look into that too.

 

Don't put a curve right next to a point (unless its a gentle

 

one), or use inclines unless you have a *Lot* of space. Also make sure your track (in particular points) is layed absolutely flat.

[SkyCube]

I had some derailing issues with a 3-way point once too, so I'd avoid those. I don't think they're made by Hornby.

[David55]

I think the statement 'don't use first radius at all' is misleading. Avoid 2nd radius WHY.

 

If this is because you run only steam, then this should be said.

 

I only run diesel and have 1st to 4th radius. A class 20, 25 108 runs around 1st radius

 

quite merrily

 

Everything runs no problem on second.

 

I keep 3rd and 4th radius for running pullman, HSTs etc purely because of length.

 

Lets not put people off any layout purely because it does not work on their layout.

[walkingthedog]

Trouble is David somebody might start off with a couple of diesels on 1st rad and then decide to get a steam steam loco. They will be very disappointed when they find they can't run it.

Best to use large rad curves if you can. 2nd rad is fine with

 

almost all locos. It's just 1st that can be a problem. Think ahead you never know what you might purchase.

[SkyCube]

I've definitely heard of some diesel locos having problems (slowing down etc.) on 2nd radius, maybe not Hornby ones though. It's not as big a problem as with steam, but like WTD said, one day someone's tastes might change.

 

I think it's also wise

 

to consider the future. Once, everything went around 1st radius just fine, but now that's not the case. It makes sense that the number of models unsuitable for tight corners will increase as time goes by.

[walkingthedog]

There is nothing worse than having to lift track after a few years so that a new loco will run OK, especially if you've ballasted and landscaped.

[RDS]

I became aware of the recommendation not to use 1st Radius curves shortly after I had purchased some. However, whilst I tend to build a similar type of layout on a piece of 8' x 4' Sundeala board each time I put it down, I am sure that it is never exactly

 

the same. I do not fasten the track down and I have lots of standard Hornby points (R8072 & R8073, which I think are also 1st Radius). I have no flexi track. All my track is Hornby.

I tend to build 4 ovals (1st to 4th Radius) with points to get from one

 

oval to the next and with some sidings in the middle.

I run Class 08, Class 20, Class 37, Class 47, a Smokey Joe, and a Duchess of Gloucester.

In my experience and maybe I am just fortunate but the only loco of mine that will not successfully negotiate

 

1st Radius is the Duchess of Gloucester (R2386).

It is DCC, operated from an Elite and RailMaster and incidentally, I only use one power connection which is on the 4th Radius oval.

[SkyCube]

Many locos made using older tooling will be fine on 1st radius. The problem is really with model designed in more recent years. It's quite possible that many your locos fit into the former category.

 

You'll probably find that locos you buy in the

 

future are less likely to work on 1st radius.

 

 

[Blackbird]

It is worth remembering the prototypical railways had some curved sections that large wheelbase locos couldn't manage! Hornby and other make 'setrack' points are, by defination, second radius. Almost all current manufactured locos will, with care, negotiate

 

this. Apart from Hornby 'express' points, larger radius points are only available from other manufactures. Fortunately Hornby now produce 4th radius setrack curved track which is well worth using

[SkyCube]

There's nothing wrong with 1st radius so long as you're properly aware of the limitations.

 

Problem is Hornby don't really go out of their way to point it out to newbies. Yes loco boxes have the minimum radius on them, but that's easily missed, and

 

no good to people who plan/build a layout before buying any such locos.

[LCDR]

If you do not subscribe to this forum, and do not buy the catalogue it is quite possible that a new purchaser will in ignorance of the limitations make the mistake of buying small radius curves and then wonder why their expensive new super detail locomotive

 

bought from the same firm (and I don't just mean Hornby) doesn't negotiate the curves on the layout. This will be much more likely now that most purchases are made either from non-specialist shops or by mail / on-line orders.

 

Hornby, and the other

 

makers, need to wake up and adopt a much more responsible position. The packaging and sales material needs to distinguish more clearly what is compatible. Perhaps it needs to be clear by identifying first radius curves in packaging as 'Suitable for Railroad

 

only' and ensuring that all Railroad editions will operate over first radius, after all the original models were compatible first time round.

 

As an aside somehow I must admit I do find the use of set-track to run super detailed locomotives and

 

rolling stock a trifle incongruous.

 

 

SkyCube said:

 

There's nothing wrong with 1st radius so long as you're properly aware of the limitations.

 

Problem is Hornby don't really go out of their way to point it out to newbies. Yes

 

loco boxes have the minimum radius on them, but that's easily missed, and no good to people who plan/build a layout before buying any such locos.

[2e0dtoeric]

It's a bit like trying to race Formula 1 cars on a go-kart track.

[David55]

I agree with you about the packaging, you don't know what curve it will run on till you open it.

 

However, many model shops have the trains on display without the packaging so should the shop advise you.

 

As for marking 1st radius for railroad

 

only, this isnt true as my expensive trains run on it no problem. In fact the railroad class 40 won't.

 

It is however a good idea to have a set of models clearly advertised for 1st radius. Might open up more avenues for them.

 

 

 

[SkyCube]

I don't see why they can't just put a little sticker on the track pieces that warns that it's not compatible with all trains. They already put a health and safety sticker on there these days, it can't be too much hassle.

[da4472vid]

I have three tracks 1st rad, 2nd rad, 3rd rad and I use the 1st rad for 0-4-0s 0-6-0,s and the GWR railcar only

[Graskie]

It is a shame, isn't it? I've got 3 9Fs that won't take my sharper curves with their 10 driving wheels. I'd like to be able to get them onto what will be my inner shed area but they won't do it. I reckon I'll have to get rid of them.

[walkingthedog]

My 9F's manage second rad Graskie. Two Hornby one the other company.

[LIBoy]

You got any pics yet? Have you done it all yourself also? I am trying to do plan 13/13 but just cannot get the track to fit always a space no matter how or where i try and start from

[walkingthedog]

Best if you use track plans to give you ideas. Sketch roughly what you want and then build the main parts, and add bits as you go along. I doubled the amount of sidings after I thought I had finished, not that you ever finish.

[Richard Alibon]

Having read all the negative comments about 1st radius curves, I thought I'd put in my tuppenyworth.  My interest in railway modelling was rekindled by buying the Santa's Express train set at Christmas.  Since then I have been building it up and in the process I have learned a lot about curve radii.  I have discovered that practically all my track are 1st radius curves, which I was constrained to use by the limited space I have available.  I am rather pleased the layout I was able to fit into the space I have (see photo) and I have been running 0-4-0 steam trains with no trouble.  However I have noted the above comments and I shall be careful in buying any longer locos or rolling stock, although it is unlikely I would because they would look ridiculous on such a small track.  I have to say that the Santa's Express is a very fast and powerful little engine compared with the Smokey Joe, a more recent acquisition./media/tinymce_upload/8d6b24cb7a46ba942e3aace7bb132446.JPG

[Going Spare]

Well done - a good start!  But your drivers may need more training - the Santa train appears to have passed a signal at danger!

[Puffed Out]

Try running a Class 40 diesel on radius 1, with a rake of wagons/coaches attached.  ☹️

I have removed all radius 1 & 2 curves from my layout.  No problems now. 

[96RAF]

Well done - a good start!  But your drivers may need more training - the Santa train appears to have passed a signal at danger!

Signal is set for clockwise working.  Santa is going a/clock.