Coronation Scot Coaches

[81F]

Hello all,

 

In a moment of weakness I bought a Hornby Coronation and am building up a set of coaches for it. I have obtained a brake 3rd and a First in the Blur livery from the Coronation Train Pack and another brake 3rd separately. All are from

 

the older mouldings (as used in Railroad)/

 

My question is did/do Hornby ever produce a composite or others in in the blue and silver - I think they made them in red.

[81F]

Blur livery! - I meant Blue! - Also does anyone know a good match for this colour?

[LCDR]

I don't think they did the other coaches.

 

As to colour match it depends upon how accurate Hornby were in the first place, but Phoenix Precision P31 should be the one.

[mortehoe]

81F, you set my cogs whirring. You have more than likely seen the page I am about to post the link for. What caught my eye was the roof vents replaced with some form long vent/shield.

 

http://www.elegantsteam.com/coronation_scot_no_1069.html.

 

If

 

you've not seen it before, I hope it is of some help.

[Postman Prat]

 

Hi Mortehoe, that's a nice site. The link didn't work but I've got it in my favourites box, anyway.

 

[mortehoe]

Thanks PP. Sorry 81F try this. http://www.elegantsteam.com/

[Donem]

mortehoe said:

81F, you set my cogs whirring. You have more than likely seen the page I am about to post the link for. What caught my eye was the roof vents replaced with some form long vent/shield.

http://www.elegantsteam.com/coronation_scot_no_1069.html.

Hello,

I'm Don Marshall and I'm elegantsteam.com. The vents that you speak of are covers for the air conditioning system. The covers are on all coaches other than the kitchen cars.
If you've not seen it before, I hope it is of some help.

[Donem]

My post got caught up in Morthoe's.But I'm sure that you got the drift.

 

Don

[mortehoe]

High Donem, that is a very good site you have there. I have looked at your site several times, but it was only this week that I noticed the roof detail. I am also surprised to find the consist, was made up of such differing underframe lengths. Please keep

 

up the good work.

[2e0dtoeric]

Am I seeing it correctly - these coaches were paired, with a shared bogey in the middle?

[mortehoe]

2e0dtoeric said:

Am I seeing it correctly - these coaches were paired, with a shared bogey in the middle?

With out looking at the site, it sounds like you are looking at the LNER page, sounds like you are looking at the The Silver

Jubilee, or The Coronation. If you look at the LMS Streamline section you will see The Coronation Scot.

[81F]

mortehoe said:

2e0dtoeric said:

Am I seeing it correctly - these coaches were paired, with a shared bogey in the middle?With out looking at the site, it sounds like you are looking at the LNER page, sounds like you are looking at the

The Silver Jubilee, or The Coronation. If you look at the LMS Streamline section you will see The Coronation Scot.

There are two articulated sets under the LMS Streamlne section. One is the sedt built for the American Tour while the other is

a proposed set.

Looking at the individual blue UK vehicles I think I'll be sticking the Hornby ones without much modification. However, I'll be attaching some of the other companies bogies to them once the necessary nuts bolts and washers have arrived.

This seemed to work well for my LMS TPO and Imperial Airways Luggage van.

As an aside, looking at the roofs of the Hornby models, are the vent patterns on the first class coach more appropriate to an open coach rather than a corridor?

[2e0dtoeric]

I think I was looking at the proposed set. Sorry!

[mortehoe]

81F, you are a pain, but I mean that in a nice way. Both my son and I have fancied a full set, so I think I will give it a go, but on looking at what is available, it might mean a mixture of manufacturers. Your question as re the vents, are you talking

 

about the coaches from the train pack ?. At the moment, I can't find, a decent picture of the train pack version.

 

Since I have just applied to be re-trained, it will be a slow process, and I might take a risk, and go for a high level of kit bashing.

 

Please

 

keep us informed on how you get on, and of course pictures would be nice.

[81F]

Hi Mortehoe,

 

The roof vents were those on the coaches from Coronation Train Pack which look as if they come from the same mouldings as the railroad range (original 1980s) Stanier coaches. I'm just about to look through the illustrations of the train

 

and compare the drawings with all the Stanier coaches I have. However at first glance I'm not hopeful!

[81F]

Just been through the illustrations from ELEGENT STEAM (ES) site, looked at the LMS promo video on YouTube and compared them with every different type of Stanier corridor coach I have in my collection (which is a bit mixed!). Unfortunately I’ve shuffled

 

my train pack Coronation Coaches up with a pair I bought separately so I’m not sure which running numbers were in the pack!

 

I started to prepare some notes on what needs doing but I think it's far beyond me but for what it’s worth, here are my notes:

 

Hornby

 

Blue Corridor Brake 3rd 5812 and 5814 (5814 illustrated in ES)

 

Roof vents are in the right place but from the video they look if they should be covered with some kind of faring (see also LMS video)

 

Guards Duckets are missing (Just visible

 

on ES but more so in LMS Video. Coach ends seem to be the same as my Railroad 1980s GWR Collets as is the chassis! This means there is a running board that should not be there, the vacuum cylinders are a little too close to the middle, the battery boxes are

 

in the wrong place (there should be one large central one) and there’s no windows in the guards ends. The bogies are also BR Mk1.

 

For an accurate model you’re probably better off adapting the roof and repainting the maroon Hornby R4232. However, for

 

a cheaper less detailed one, the old (Airfix possibly) version is available as an unpainted Kit from D@POL.

 

Hornby Blue Corridor 1st 1070 and 1071 (1069 illustrated in ES)

 

The window arrangements are different, the Hornby model and looks

 

like a blue LMS composite from the railroad range. The alternating vents look suspect, see above about the fairings. The chassis and bogies also suffer from the same issues as the brake

For an accurate model you’re probably better off adapting the roof

 

and repainting the maroon Hornby R4230.

 

Vestibule cars

 

All the Vestibule cars do not have their doors at the extreme outer ends, so I didn’t even bother looking at window spacing etc because I cannot find any Stanier model like it and

 

cutting the sides so close to the ends to swap lavatory windows with doors seems too much like hard work and I don't think I could do a good enough job.

 

Kitchen Cars No 30086 and 30084

 

In theory this might be possible. The side shown suggests

 

you might get somewhere by adapting the R4233 Parcels Van by removing the guards duckets filling doors, cutting new windows etc.

 

Corridor Brake First No 5052

 

by the time I got this far I was so demoralized that I simply concluded that

 

the wider window spacing and one less set of parcel doors would require whole new sides between the furthest most doors on whatever Corridore brake 3rd you stated with.

 

All in all I think I’ll make do with changing the bogies (will make them look better)

 

and possibly modify the battery boxes.

 

[mortehoe]

Hi 81F, did you see the posts from Donem, on page one of this thread ?, he owns the Elegant Steam site. He answered, my query about the long shroud on the roof of all cars except the Kitchens.

With a mix of manufacturers, one could make, a good representation,

 

of a set, but as you say, the lookouts on the full parcels, would have to come off. If I wanted to really cheat, I wouldn't bother with new windows.

 

I shall obtain as much info as possible, I am definitely going for the air conditioning roof top shroud,

 

I still cannot believe I only noticed it in the past few days ! ! !.

I will buy a couple of D*p*l kits and try kit bashing, if that is successful, I will continue down that route, if it is a disaster, not much in money will have been wasted.

 

This

 

project, will be a slow process for me, so far 2013, has been terrible, and I am to about to embark on retraining, if I am going to have to work, for at least 12 more years, I might as well do something I am going to enjoy. Telecommunications has had a large

 

chunk of my life, time for a change.

 

Best of luck with your project, look forward to seeing the end result.

[LCDR]

The 1937 'Coronation' train was made up as follows - Corridor Brake First BFK (Dia 1961), Corridor First FK (Dia 1960), Vestibule First Diner RFO (dia 1902), Kitchen Car RK (Dia 1912), 2 x Vestibule Third Diner RTO (Dia 1981), KItchen Car RK (Dia 1912)

 

Vestibule Third Diner RTO (Dia 1981) Corridor Brake Third BTK (Dia 1905).

 

Some are available from Comet as kits (Dia 1902, Dia 1905, Dia 1912, Dia 1960, Dia 1981) if that saves a bit of work?

[LCDR]

I should also add that the SRG Phoenix Coach Kits DO offer the fill range of vehicles for the 1937 train.

 

LC&DR said:

 

The 1937 'Coronation' train was made up as follows - Corridor Brake First BFK (Dia 1961), Corridor First FK (Dia

 

1960), Vestibule First Diner RFO (dia 1902), Kitchen Car RK (Dia 1912), 2 x Vestibule Third Diner RTO (Dia 1981), KItchen Car RK (Dia 1912) Vestibule Third Diner RTO (Dia 1981) Corridor Brake Third BTK (Dia 1905).

 

Some are available from Comet as kits

 

(Dia 1902, Dia 1905, Dia 1912, Dia 1960, Dia 1981) if that saves a bit of work?

[Postman Prat]

 

Hi Mortehoe

 

"Telecommunications has had a large chunk of my life, time for a change."

 

DON'T BECOME A POSTMAN!!!!

 

 

 

[walkingthedog]

I guess telecoms has been a big part of quite a few of our lives in different guises.

[81F]

mortehoe said:

Hi 81F, did you see the posts from Donem, on page one of this thread ?, he owns the Elegant Steam site. He answered, my query about the long shroud on the roof of all cars except the Kitchens.
With a mix of manufacturers,

one could make, a good representation, of a set, but as you say, the lookouts on the full parcels, would have to come off. If I wanted to really cheat, I wouldn't bother with new windows.

I shall obtain as much info as possible, I am definitely going

for the air conditioning roof top shroud, I still cannot believe I only noticed it in the past few days ! ! !.
I will buy a couple of D*p*l kits and try kit bashing, if that is successful, I will continue down that route, if it is a disaster, not much in

money will have been wasted.

This project, will be a slow process for me, so far 2013, has been terrible, and I am to about to embark on retraining, if I am going to have to work, for at least 12 more years, I might as well do something I am going to

enjoy. Telecommunications has had a large chunk of my life, time for a change.

Best of luck with your project, look forward to seeing the end result.

One thing to remember with the D@pol coaches is that they all clip together in the following

way.

The interior drops into the body which helps hold the glazing into place which clips into the window apertures.

The chassis has raised clips that pas through slots in the underside of the body which engages with slots in the Glazing.

The

roof then clips onto lugs on the glasing.

If you start swapping windows round you will also need to find a way of keeping the chassis locating slots and roof lugs in the original position or find other ways of holding the thing together.

[81F]

I should have also said this should be straight forward, just remember to do it before you get too far into the build. I managed to come a cropper a few years back when I attempted to change the window positions in a centenary (they are held together in

 

the same way)

[mortehoe]

81F, thank you for the heads up. What with night school, and or weekend residential, and still working, spare time will be rather short. Please at least, keep me posted as to how you get on.

[flyingfox4475]

Yes they did them in red & gold. I have a set. My understanding that when the Coronation Scot was introduced by the LMS they only used the blue & silver in service. It was planned to use the red & gold for the summer service 1940, But the war stopped that.