Pete172 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Hi all, Hope someone can help. When starting up Railmaster,I am aware that the system should switch points to their selected default position (providing "set points" is ticked). My system will only switch the points connected to Port 1 to its default position. The other points connected to ports 2,3&4 will not change to their default position, though sometimes I can hear a small click but the point has not changed, but the route arrows on the screen always show the correct default position. Once the decoder is fully charged (4 sec)all my points fire correctly. Doubtless the issue is with the capacitor discharge unit taking too long to re-charge, compared to the speed of the automatic point setting process on start-up...i.e by the time port 1 has fired (and the cdu has then discharged)there is no power left to fire ports 2,3 or4. Question = is there any way to slow down the auto point setting process (on start-up), to allow more time for the decoders to recharge ?? (assuming this will solve the issue). Info -I am using Elite v1.41 + Railmaster v1.51 and R8247 accessory decoders + SEEP PM1 motors. The decoders are wired with doubled up 16/0.2 strand wires, soldered to a 13amp house wire dcc bus. Many thanks, P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCTinker Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 You can slow down the points firing interval. It's in the PDF guide, page 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete172 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 DCCTinker said: You can slow down the points firing interval. It's in the PDF guide, page 24. Hi DCCTinker. Many thanks for your reply. I have now looked at the PDF and I see entry "points timer" in the .ini file information. Do I just change the figure from 0.75 to a higher figure, say, 3 (seconds)? and save it..? I'm using Windows Vista. Interestingly, I don't seem to have a Railmaster.ini file. Using the file string C/Program Files/Railmaster, this lists amongst others, Railmaster -Configuration Settings, so I opened this and found only the first 11 entries of the 26 entries on page 24 of the PDF, i.e.from Tipper Speed to Use Default Curves. The remainder - from Polling Time to Enabled Mouse are all missing ! So, I am just wondering if I have found the correct file, as I don't want to change anything in a different file and make a complete mess....... Many thanks, P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCCTinker Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Yes, set the number higher. It's in seconds. Not all entries are in the ini file because Railmaster uses default settings. You just add a line if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 @Pete172 I would save a copy of the ini file, safely somewhere else just in case it all goes wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete172 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 RDS said: @Pete172 I would save a copy of the ini file, safely somewhere else just in case it all goes wrong! Hi, thanks for the tip. Not sure how to do this though. Would I just open the file (it opens in Notepad on my PC), then File - Save As , and give it a different name ? Also , when I actually alter the points setting figure in the original file in Notepad, do I just press file then save ? ( assume it will save as the correct file type... (what can possibly go wrong !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Pete, just copy/paste the file using explorer menu options. this will create a copy which you can then rename to something sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 the integrated cdu in the 8247 makes for simple setup but does have the drawback of the recharge time. say you are running a train around your layout and need to set up a route that needs 3 sets of points thrown. assuming the CDU is fully charged to start off with then this will take 6 seconds. if you layout is 10s of metres in length then this is fine.... otherwise you probably need to stop the train, throw the points and then restart the train. the train will otherwise be at risk of passing through some of the points before or during the movement of the points. in my layout which is 2.7 x 1.2m and where I run trains at less than 100km/h max speed I use an external power supply for my points. this lets me have inter-point-operation times of fractions of a second so the scenario above might take less than a second even allowing for the infamous elite retry requirement. The upside of the railmaster/8247 approach is that it has all been set up and should "just work". If you roll-your-own as I have done then you learn a lot..... and spend a lot of time:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete172 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Gregd99 said: I use an external power supply for my points. If you roll-your-own as I have done then you learn a lot..... and spend a lot of time:-) Gregd99, thanks for your reply. What kind of points decoder are you using ? I have a good beefy transformer that always changes SEEP point motors, but I can't use it with my R8247 decoders ...can I ? The R8247 decoder needs about 4 seconds to recharge after firing a SEEP motor, so I can expect some problems with route setting 3 points. If I reset the pause time to 4 sec, that will equate to 12 seconds (bad if the 3 points are close together). I have spent many hours trying to get Railmaster to operate correctly on my Vista PC, Railmaster keeps shutting down, usually when I am in layout design mode. I am trying to contact Railmaster Support for some ideas... Are you using XP, Vista, or 7 ? Cheers, P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I use a 6 port accessory decoder from another supplier with my elite. an external transformer can be connected to power the point motors. As this is a hornby forum and they have a competing product I am not able to name the supplier but google will assist if this is what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Thanks guys, solved my problem as well .... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete172 Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Gregd99 said: I use a 6 port accessory decoder from another supplier with my elite. an external transformer can be connected to power the point motors. Hi, thanks Gregd99. I have 5 of the R8247 decoders so I am financially committed. I will try to change the timer figure to 4 secs and see how that performs. N.B. I noticed that there is a small box marked Delay with the figure 15 in it (I think), on my Decoder Tab on Railmaster, any idea what "Delay" is for or represents ? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAus Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Should have added that with 4 R8247 changing the value to 3 seconds works great. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Hi Pete172, I also use another suppliers decoder with Seep PM 1's. The ones I use have an onboard CDU that takes between 0.5 and 1 sec to recharge. To save buying more kit can you just throw the points earlier? R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 @RogerB - I think the answer might be "yes but" looking @ http://www.elginmodelrailwayclub.co.uk/2010/advice/scalespeed/model-railway-scale-speed-calculator.html we can see that at 60 (scale) mph the loco will take 1.4 seconds to cover a foot. if three points are thrown with a gap of 3 seconds in between each then this is a total time of 6 seconds. in the 6 seconds the loco will have traveled 4.3'. At 100 mph it will have traveled 7.5'. If your layout is many tens of feet long then operating points 4-8 seconds in advance is relatively straightforward. if your layout is more compact then it is more challenging. If you want to automate and detect a loco position and then trigger the point changes it becomes very challenging on a compact layout. it's all good fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You can say that again. As I have said elsewhere, after a break of 45 years I am fairly sure I would not have been able to build and then run my layout (6.5 feet by 4.5 feet DCC in OO gauge) wihtout the willing, friendly and timely advice of folk such as those found on these forums. Things have changed a bit since the old "clip it together, start it running, give it a tap" days, but I dont regret a moment of it. Good fun indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete172 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 RogerB said: Hi Pete172, I also use another suppliers decoder with Seep PM 1's. The ones I use have an onboard CDU that takes between 0.5 and 1 sec to recharge. To save buying more kit can you just throw the points earlier? R- Hi RogerB, I will indeed try planning routes in advance as I have invested approx £175 in these decoders (5 off), and I am not pleased that they take 4sec to charge and fire a Seep PM1. I have not tried to change the pause time to 4 sec yet on Railmaster, just hope it works.. If I was building my layout again, I would either choose different Acc Decoders, or point motors. This issue was not one that I was even aware of at the time... baaa P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Several people I know with DCC layouts use an ordinary CDU, which charges almost instantaneously, to change the point motors and keep the point changing separate from the DCC side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 There is plenty of support for running your points separately on DC WTD. But for the original and ongoing problem here, we are talking about Railmaster control and that is of necessity DCC. And the problem occurs where you are running a program that includes setting up a route and running trains at the same time. The route setting will only work if Ou allow sufficient time for the points decoder to recharge before you try to throw another point on the route. The original problem was setting the whole layout to its default route on startup, which may involve a lot of point throwing, depending on what state the layout was left in. The route setting delay problem will be minimised if you can throw points on different decoders in sequence, rather than trying to throw all on the same decoder in quick succession. In fact, this should be taken into account when doing original wiring to minimise wanting to throw points on the same decoder in quick succession, and maximising the likelihood of being able to throw one from each of a number of decoders in sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Ou should be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Thanks fishy. I see what it's all about now. Could you not use a CDU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 If you are using the Hornby R8247 accessory decoder, it contains a CDU but, to limit the current it draws from the track and so not affect loco operation, the recharge time on it is a couple of seconds so you need to space out the point throws on its 4 outputs, hence the problem. You'll note that there is a non-Hornby solution mentioned where someone else's decoder operates via a separate power supply that drives the point motors and so avoids the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I know nothing about Railmaster but I think I would use it (if possible) to activate relays that would send the CDU discharge to the relevant points. Just ignore me if I'm talking rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Yes, that would work. You use the accessory decoder to drive the relays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 That would mean the CDU would be charged quickly by its own power supply and not have any detrimental effect to the layouts supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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