Internet.

[tony_forward]

Having had various problems, the latest one still not solved, and reading through both the manual and this forum, it occurs to me that a large number of problems seem to be caused by railmasters inability to get through firewalls and anti-virus programs, even when apparently added to the exceptions! 

Either this is a problem with the general level of computer knowledge amongst the general public or a fundamental problem with the way RM works.

Question - when the RM help staff connect to your computer, do they encounter the same causes each time? If so, could the solution not be included in an update so that future connection problems can be avoided?

 

 

[Teedoubleudee]

Hi Tony, I've had my problems with RM and internet connections too. First time was when I couldn't activate the software. The guys were unable to fix the problem but after checking all my settings were correct, just activated it manually by copying down the relevant files to my PC directly. Consequently when I tried to send an error report through RM yesterday it failed again with an error. I had to email them directly and bless them, they fixed my new problem quickly by taking control of my PC again.

So I agree, it would be helpful for all if they could possible find some time to permanantly make it work with all A/V and Firewall progs. I'm loathe to replace my security software as it comes as a complete package from BT. I know it's a big ask as they (RM support) don't have access to these packages, for obvious reasons, but think of the time they will save by not having to fix our problems and spend it making RM even better!

[tony_forward]

Kiwi, serious? Yes, absolutely. Other companies manage to converse with your PC, banks, retailers etc and of course Microsoft themselves. I have had the same problems as others on here - after 20 years as an IT manager I do know my way around PC's and am perfectly capable of adding programs to the exceptions list on AV programs. It apparently does not always work with RM. The RM program IS added to my AV and Firewall exceptions and I run as ADMIN but I still had problems activating and using the help button - even when I bought the laptop within the full wifi range.

My question stands, when the RM guys log on to your PC to solve the problems you are having, is there anything common that they can possibly include a fix for in the next update?

[Teedoubleudee]

Kiwi says:

"The ONLY way round these issues is to adjust the settings on your PC, and you should be very grateful for that."

I would be grateful, but the settings on my PC ARE correct, but it still doesent work. However I AM grateful that RM support have such a dedicated team who quickly fix the problems by circumventing the communication errors. I just wish it wasn't necessary.

Ask yourself why it works with some security software and not others?

[Augustus Caesar]

The simple answers to these points are that all security software is proprietory and have different methods of scanning your system to the others. They also lock down far too much especially when using the likes of Norton and McAfee etc. I have posted about this on here before and have given comprehensive instructions as to how to get your system through these pathetic programs.

Do a search for my posts especially in the last month or so and you will find what I have said. The simple way to do all this is to STOP using one program like those mentioned and specific ISP freebies from BT, Virgin or whoever. They will NOT cover all aspects of your security and will create problems with RM and other programs. There is NO single program that will give 100% cover on the net... if you believe that then you might as well believe in fairies.

I do not use a paid for a/v program but use Spybot, Malwarebytes and Avast which are all free. You can replace Avast with whatever free anti virus product you like but you should use the other two in conjunction. These will protect from malware and spyware (hence their names) while a/v products will miss the majority of these.

Using the Windows own firewall is adequate enough and as your router has a firewall built in you are doubly protected. By allowing the RM program to bypass the Windows firewall and turning any other one off (software based of course) you will see RM get through and if it doesn't just remove the offending a/v software. I guarantee you will not fail with that setup and if you do then your system has malware or spyware on it and these will be protecting themselves from erasure or exposure to updates that can stop them thus they block ports etc and hence your problem...

All this from a guy who has over 30 odd years looking after servers, networks, Pc builds and repairs and of course laptop repairs. Also a web designer I do think I know what I am talking about.

Sorry if all that sounds harsh guys but it is really meant to help and not offend. I used to use those products I mentioned and more and had issues that were beyond belief at times. So I took the sensible route... ditched them and I have clean systems. Yes, I have been caught out but I get caught seldom if at all now and usually zap the offending stuff immediately.

I hope you get the systems sorted and Hornby, because of the statement I make in the first paragraph, cannot cover all scenarios... it is absolutely impossible! The fault will always be on your system when firewall and a/v issues arise!

[gilbo2]

AC, another informative post, thanks. You made me smile though, how much information would a non-simple reply have contained ;-)

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

AugustusCaesar has hit the nail on the head.

Easily 75% of problems reported to us regard activating, deactivating and submitting orders and pretty-much 100% of them are due to antivirus system blocking RailMaster on the affected PCs.

As you will know we produced a guide on setting up RailMaster with the most popular antivirus systems available and by far the worst, in terms of aggressive blocking, is McAfee (followed ny Norton).  The problem is exarcebated by the fact that this particular program is provided as a freebie (evaluation period) on so many PCs and by some large Internet providers.  When we produced the guide we tested all AV products therein and found massive disparity between all of those popular programs, in terms of firewall blocking and program blocking.  The two products mentioned will block a program out of hand and not even let the user know.  They then make it difficult to add the blocked program as an exception.

From the 75% of users who bring to us problems regarding activating around 80% of those simply have not followed the instructions in the RailMaster PDF guide and Internet Security PDF guide, the latter being referenced in the former and both being installed onto users' Windows desktops.  This is a prime example of where reading the manual really does help.

As has been mentioned already, RailMaster cannot add itself to antivirus software.  If it could do this the whole AV industry would be rendered useless overnight as every hacker in the world would see to it.  It is a fact of life that there are criminals and hackers who want to gain access to your PC and their 'tricks' are growing ever more sophisticated, therefore AV packages are growing ever more aggressive and blocking everything in sight.

RailMaster allows you to submit orders and send Help Requests from within the software and when activing takes personal details, unlike the majority of Windows programs out there.  Therefore, the program uses encryption and secure protocols to submit this data and the data is NEVER stored on the Internet.  This will also answer those who may say "... yes but I don't get this with other programs ....".

To briefly go back to the figures mentioned earlier, 75% of users who contact us with issues have activation, deactivation or order submission issues (invariably AV blocking) and around 80% of those haven't followed the instructions and are directed to the Internet security guide and resolve the issue themselves.  Incredibly, around 25% of those who say they have followed the instructions and still have problems, after we log into their system we find, guess what .... they haven't followed the instructions.

The fact of the matter is that the problem with antivirus packages blocking RailMaster (and other programs) is going to get worse, not better simply because of the more sophisticated means being used by criminals to hack PCs and accounts.

We would urge all users to read the main RailMaster PDF guide to gain familiarity with the software and also read the Internet security guide to ensure they have correctly added RailMaster as a full exception to the antivirus and firewall software.

[Teedoubleudee]

Then please tell us which AV software (preferably free) programs WILL work with RM.

[Augustus Caesar]

Well said HRMS and I totally agree with everything in there. Life is getting more comlicated with all the folk out there trying to steal stuff from our computers and making things tough for yourselves to keep reiterating the same point over and over again. Referalls do work however... the problem lies with new members to this forum not taking the time to search thoroughly for posts with solutions to these issues and it is sometimes understandable when folk want an out of the box solution and everything working first time.

Thank ain't gonna happen so much anymore and it is time we understood that.

[Graskie]

I paid for Panda and that seems fine.

[96RAF]

So mostly finger trouble and then as HRMS so politely puts it 'agressive AV'.

I have used AVG Free for years (its now at issue 2015) as opposed to AVG free trial which runs out after 30 days, and so far it has never screwed up my pc, as coincidentaly both those AV mentioned have previously done to the point of being unable to boot into Windows.

I agree with AC that Win Defender and the Firewall are as good a protection as you need when backed up by a reliable AV.

My only persistent problem has been an inability to upgrade my Elite except with an old Win XP laptop. I may have to let HRMS have a peek at my Win 8.1 train pc and see if they can embaress me by pointing out where the problem is (its got to be finger trouble at my end).

[Augustus Caesar]

I am typing up a guide guys that you may find helpful as to which programs to use to allow full access for RM without fail if your PC/laptop is not virused and setup correctly.

It'll be here in a mo.....

[Augustus Caesar]

See my post above or the one below for exactly what I recommend.... you cannot fail... :-)

[Augustus Caesar]

What to use for clear RM operation on ANY version of Windows!!!
Read the guide I offer up below…

Remove any software you have related to AV products... ANY software... paid for or not!

Malwarebytes….

1.    Go to www.malwarebytes.org
2.    Click the orange link for FREE VERSION DOWNLOAD and a popup will ask you to save the program. Do so.
3.    Find the program on your drive and install using options for the free version during this task. IMPORTANT...remove the tick from the option to install the free trial for the Premium version!!!
4.    When installed the program will run itself and update the definition files. You ONLY need to concern yourself with updates and scans on this program. The other options are not that important but you can use them if you so wish.

Spybot….

1.    Go to www.safer-networking.org and click on DOWNLOAD link at the top of the screen.
2.    Under Home Users find the textual link for Download Spybot 2.4 Free Edition and click that.
3.    Look for the section headed Ad-free download at Safer-Networking Ltd. And click any one of the three links provided.
4.    You will be taken to a Spybot own mirror page where you should click on Download (red button)
5.    Save the file to your drive and then install keeping to the free options

Neither program requires Admin rights to install but they should be given those when running each time in Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 and you do that by right clicking the program exe file and giving those rights under the compatibility tab after opening the Properties window. This should be done under both 32 and 64 bit operation so you are in the habit of doing it for these programs. Once done under properties of course that’s it as it only needs doing once.

When you install Spybot and then update the definition files you MUST immunize the PC/laptop. Again this added program is to be given admin rights and you can find the shortcut easily to right click and put the option in place. This will immunize some of Windows' files as well as ALL browsers on your machine and will protect their files from being overwritten by malicious code.

Updates should be done regularly for both and scan times are personal to you. Just remember to Immunize with admin rights on Spybot after EVERY update is done and before you scan the system.

As for anti-virus software… use whatever free version you are comfortable with that has NO firewall attached… I mean that… NO firewall attached. Use the Windows firewall and RM will get through every time without a problem. Remember that your router also has a built in forewall but it should not get in the way of RM at all.

Free AV software I use is Avast at avast.co.uk. Registration is a must for the free version but your email is never used or passed on. Registration is for 1 year. You can even put a false email address in as this is not checked. You are not contacted either with a real email address. So don't worry about IT spying on you!!!

I could write a far more comprehensive guide than this but this one SHOULD suffice.

Hope it helps!!!

[Teedoubleudee]

Thanks AC. I've used Avast and Spybot before. Think I'll dump my BT protection pack. I used to get it for free when I had fibre but since moving to deepest Norfolk and slooooooow BB they charge me £3.49 pm for it so I'll save that too ;-)

Admin edit: Swearing but using stars instead of letters is still swearing

[Augustus Caesar]

Anything for a few bucks eh? lol

Never mind... if you follow the path I give let us all know how you get on.

I'm in the process of putting together a tutorial for this kind of thing for a client shortly which is a bit more involved (though it's not for RM!!) and if I have a few requests I may expand it out for the likes of Win7/8 etc with RM in mind. Thus it will be a virtual walkthrough for RM, ports, a/v products etc and amdin rights - the works.

No idea how the Hornby admin team or HRMS will react but I believe they will go for it. I will obviously refer people to their help as well and hopefully any referrals to HRMS etc will be kept to a minimum from then on...

If anyone wants that uide drawn up let me know... if I get enough folk wanting it I will consider altering the upcoming one for my client and posting on a new thread.

Any thoughts HRMS or Admin team?

[Teedoubleudee]

AC says:

I'm in the process of putting together a tutorial for this kind of thing for a client shortly which is a bit more involved (though it's not for RM!!) and if I have a few requests I may expand it out for the likes of Win7/8 etc with RM in mind. Thus it will be a virtual walkthrough for RM, ports, a/v products etc and amdin rights - the works.

I think that's a great idea. I consider myself computer-literate having worked on the service side of the industry since early 70s, my recent introduction to the world of DCC has been (to be kind) less than perfect. I DID read all the the manuals provided by RM and followed their guidelines to the letter but I still fell foul of this dastardly anti virus issue. I've always kept my computers secure and never had a problem until RM came along. Being new to DCC I naturally believed all my problems to be the fault of the software and, let's face it, DCC is really still in it's infancy. But today I've made good progress since RM support sorted my com port problem out and I'm glad I've stuck with it.

I'm a big fan of forums like these and do a heck of a lot of research before I start out on anything new, so any useful knowledge shared on them that saves me time and heartache gets my gratitude.

Publish and be dammed sir!

TWD

[Fishmanoz]

Just on Elite firmware upgrade, you only have to do it once to 1.41 so not sure why you are worried RAF assuming it is already there. 

But to repeat what has not been said for ages now, this upgrade is very sensitive to following the instructions for it quite precisely. This includes running as admin, following all of the delays between steps to put it in upgrade mode in the first place, and sometimes then having to try more than once for it to work. 

Then my conclusion is that while it will work with all Windows versions, there are some hardware and or BIOS configurations that fail. HCC has even noted that when an Elite is returned to them for a free upgrade, they use one of 2 particular computers to get the job done.  AC might like to comment on this?

[Fishmanoz]

And good to see your admission TWD. There have been a few here who have insisted they are PC experts, have done everything as per instructions so RM must be at fault. I have always avoided saying to them its you mate, not RM, and just referred them to HRMS to get sorted.  

[Augustus Caesar]

Some PC's have BIOS settings where a light version of an antivirus product is automatically set to run as soon as the PC is switched on. You are ALWAYS advised to switch this off if confident of getting into the BIOS and doing so. It even stops a reinstall of Windows at times so is a totally uneccessary thing to have set.

I believe that the computers they will use will have a minimum based setup on it with nothing in particular being installed that can get in the way of RM... i.e. a/v products. These PC's will maybe just run as simple test beds or at least PC's that are absolutely known to work and with no risk of additions being made that will interrupt the testing and upgrading of RM or Elite etc.

As you will appreciate Fishy there are many configurations for PC's out there and it would not really be right for me to guess too much what will be stopping most folk in terms of hardware. Except to say that lower port numbers on USB slots may be used by other equipment and forcing RM to seek a higher number port when it really needs to be looked at by Windows early on in the system boot cycle for Windows to pick it up and use accurately each time. In other words move the cable to a port that you will see is allocated a low number (preferably 2) in the Control Panel's Device Manager.

From that it may be assumed that HCC when receiving the unit are placing it on a port low enough for Windows to register the driver correctly. One must always have the Elite or Elink units on when booting into Windows for better performance and quick pick up of the unit by Windows. This isn't essential by any means but some folk may benefit from this sequence.

[Fishmanoz]

Slight confusion here AC, not talking about anything RM but Elite firmware update. Take a look in DCC section of this site and you'll find it and the procedure to be followed. Was a time when many were having trouble with this, not only existing purchasers but for some time newly bought Elites had old firmware in them. We are talking pre-eLink too. 

At leas one on here gave up and went back to Select as a result. 

[96RAF]

@Fishy

The reason behind multiple updates of the Elite (I have 3 in various states of serviceability) was it was a necessary part of some work I was doing and I also wanted to be prepared for any future Elite upgrade on any of my pcs (UK or Cyprus) if and when it should ever be necessary and should it ever happen, unlikely as that may be.

I'm as guilty as any 'expert' for now following instructions but I can assure you in this case I followed all the instructions very very carefully even to the point of entering the advanced startup area under instruction from HCC, but my Win 8.1 pc still defeats the update process, whereas its a breeze using XP.

Interesting that HCC only update kit on one of a couple of pcs.

[Teedoubleudee]

It's a fact of life that NOBODY knows everything there is to know about anything. Even the clevererist people on earth admit to learning something new every day. And if you have a wife, don't even bother starting!

Big Smiley Face

(Why no emoticons allowed here?)

[Graskie]

I like to think I'm pretty tech-savvy but at times even I feel hopelessly incapable of solving certain PC/RM problems. Never trust an expert, though. As TDD says, the missus (or even a grandchild aged 5) could probably fix them.

[Graskie]

I must add, though, that it probably is all getting far too complicated for a newcomer who just wants to run a few trains. If the industry is not careful, having to get to grips with digital systems will deter such people totally.