Is a bus wire necessary?

[houseofmil]

Does it have to be a complete loop?

Do you usualy run it around the parmiter of the board and tap off it?

Thanks.

Martin

[Rog RJ]

Does it have to be a complete loop?

Do you usualy run it around the parmiter of the board and tap off it?

Thanks.

Martin

 

It doesn't have to be a loop but it can be if that's what you want to do. As long as the droppers are fairly short you can run the bus wires however you want. Some authorities recommend twisting the bus wires together to keep interference to a minimum.

[Yelrow]

Houseofmil, Hi, 8x4, is not a big layout. Are you sure you need a bus. I have 9x5, which is perfect without one. It is totally up to you, but is a devil of a lot of work, if not essential. The forum, is very split on this, but the majority appear to be without. It is very good soldering practice, but does not allow you to make changes easily. Most of us have found that our first layout, is not satisfactory, and we have made changes. Not so easy, if you have fitted all your droppers. I have 15 points, and a turntable. Purely offering an alternate view. john

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi houseofmil

.

I would suggest you read the whole thread and then decide if you want to install the dcc bus or not.

.

The thread doesn't just discuss whether a dcc bus should be installed, that is an individual decision for the person,  it does however covers items you may wish to consider before deciding whether or not to install a bus.

.

Some specialists say a ring main bus can cause problems and most specialists recommend, for example, one wire running anti-clockwise from your power point and one running anticlockwise. Not connected but of similar length. It is good practice as RogerB says to twist the wire in your dcc bus as this stops interference, you don't want interference if using wireless technology or touch screen computer close to the layout.

.

Regarding soldering droppers, have you done any soldering in the past?  

.

PJ

[houseofmil]

Hi houseofmil

.

I would suggest you read the whole thread and then decide if you want to install the dcc bus or not.

.

The thread doesn't just discuss whether a dcc bus should be installed, that is an individual decision for the person,  it does however covers items you may wish to consider before deciding whether or not to install a bus.

.

Some specialists say a ring main bus can cause problems and most specialists recommend, for example, one wire running anti-clockwise from your power point and one running anticlockwise. Not connected but of similar length. It is good practice as RogerB says to twist the wire in your dcc bus as this stops interference, you don't want interference if using wireless technology or touch screen computer close to the layout.

.

Regarding soldering droppers, have you done any soldering in the past?  

.

PJ

Do it at work from time to time. 

not exactly sure where to solder the wires to is it to the outside of the rails or do you remove a sleeper and attach there?

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi houseofmil

.

I would suggest you read the whole thread and then decide if you want to install the dcc bus or not.

.

The thread doesn't just discuss whether a dcc bus should be installed, that is an individual decision for the person,  it does however covers items you may wish to consider before deciding whether or not to install a bus.

.

Some specialists say a ring main bus can cause problems and most specialists recommend, for example, one wire running anti-clockwise from your power point and one running anticlockwise. Not connected but of similar length. It is good practice as RogerB says to twist the wire in your dcc bus as this stops interference, you don't want interference if using wireless technology or touch screen computer close to the layout.

.

Regarding soldering droppers, have you done any soldering in the past?  

.

PJ

Do it at work from time to time. 

not exactly sure where to solder the wires to is it to the outside of the rails or do you remove a sleeper and attach there?

Hi Houseofmil.

.

The best is under the track if you are in the early stages.

.

If your track is fixed then do it on the outside, never on the inside.

.

I had never done any soldering till I started to install my dcc bus. I soldered under the rail, I took advice from others more knowledgeable than myself and have not had one problem.

.

The advice was...

- Make sure track and wire are clean then add flux

- Tin both first by adding a thin layer of solder (this is the key)

- I add flux again and then position your wire and solder in position. 

.

Tinning and flux makes it easier to solder, it minimises to much heat and fixes faster.

This saves deterioration of plastic sleepers caused by over heating.

.

Specialists say add droppers to every standard rail section, I did every other. I am not saying this is right, it was my risk assessment. They say fish plates are a common cause of power reduction, especially over time, often due to expansion and contraction but, can be other causes. I felt it rare that this should happen both ends of one piece of tact. But, this was what I chose to do having considered all the arguments and for and against and the specialists recommendations. I must conclude, specialists say every standard length of rail.

.

Good luck

.

PJ

[poliss]

No need for flux. It's already in the solder. Some types of flux contain acid and you don't want that at all.

The key points are to clean the track where you're going to solder with a fibreglass pencil and to use a hot iron. The hotter the better. That gets the parts to be soldered hot quickly and prevents the plastic sleepers being melted.

Here's how the late Teleman did it. He was a professional TV repair man with many years of soldering expertise.

[PJ_model_trains]

I used a stainless steel flux which was recommended to me. I found with a hot iron and a touch of flux they fused on impact. I know flux has been debated before for the reason you say poliss.

Fishy told me about tinning and that is so important, I found.

PJ

[2e0dtoeric]

Multicore solder already has the flux in it - hence the name.

I'm not sure why PJ used stainless steel flux, you'd need a gas blowtorch to get it hot enough to work!

[houseofmil]

Houseofmil, Hi, 8x4, is not a big layout. Are you sure you need a bus. I have 9x5, which is perfect without one. It is totally up to you, but is a devil of a lot of work, if not essential. The forum, is very split on this, but the majority appear to be without. It is very good soldering practice, but does not allow you to make changes easily. Most of us have found that our first layout, is not satisfactory, and we have made changes. Not so easy, if you have fitted all your droppers. I have 15 points, and a turntable. Purely offering an alternate view. john

John i just trying to get opions from all. my 8x4 is prob looking more like 12 x6 so im trying to do it right as i can first time. im thinking of putting a bus in but not having it conected in case its needed. im not looking forward to all that wiring in truths to be done prefer to get it done and out of the way now.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Houseofmil, Hi, 8x4, is not a big layout. Are you sure you need a bus. I have 9x5, which is perfect without one. It is totally up to you, but is a devil of a lot of work, if not essential. The forum, is very split on this, but the majority appear to be without. It is very good soldering practice, but does not allow you to make changes easily. Most of us have found that our first layout, is not satisfactory, and we have made changes. Not so easy, if you have fitted all your droppers. I have 15 points, and a turntable. Purely offering an alternate view. john

John i just trying to get opions from all. my 8x4 is prob looking more like 12 x6 so im trying to do it right as i can first time. im thinking of putting a bus in but not having it conected in case its needed. im not looking forward to all that wiring in truths to be done prefer to get it done and out of the way now.

 

I wasn't looking forward to it either but, if you have made the decision to do it you will be glad it is done and out of the way. It gives you piece of mind and you can get on and enjoy your hobby from then on.

.

Digging out and putting in foundations for a house isn't fun either but.....

I always think what is under the board, is to a degree, just as important as what goes above it.

Once you start you will be surprised how fast you get into a routine and get it done.

Good luck and Enjoy  ;o)

PJ

[Yelrow]

Didnt know you were a builder PJ. john

[PJ_model_trains]

One vote for 3 against. What happens if you change your layout, as regularly, as some of us do,, apart from needing shares in a solder factory, your layout starts to look like it has woodworm, there are so many holes. In a perfect world, PJ, your probably right, exhibition layouts etc. would have them, but for me, not a chance. john

 

Hi John

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I did not say you have to have a DCC Bus, I did not say you don't need a DCC Bus, nor did I say x number of people vote for or against.

.

Every persons layout is different, we should tell people the facts, some may manage with one power connector, but how big is the layout, how many trains running, how many points, how many signals, is the person looking to add these later, etc, etc.  Then there are  the other  facts, what do the specialists in DCC say, what are the reasons they say it, what are the risks if a DCC bus is not installed.

.

Give the person asking for help the facts, not weighted in any way, for or against, let them decide what is right for them. As said earlier... Every persons layout is different; every persons circumstances are also different and every persons wants and needs also vary.

.

We don't say for example, don't cross this road because 3 people have been killed, we say you can cross this road but be careful because 3 people have been killed. The person then decides whether to cross or how to cross, they then know the facts.

.

PJ

 

[PJ_model_trains]

Didnt know you were a builder PJ. john

 

Hi John

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I served my apprenticeship in building, I then came out of it for a while, married, kids, divorce, changed job, married, more kids.

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I had my own business for 8 years. We then moved, I was a building surveyor for Bournemouth Council for 11 years.  Since that we had our own business. Now I am retired, my wife should have been but the government in UK moved the goal posts, instead of getting it at 60 she will not get her state pension until December 2016 (63.5), but we have both retired and neither in good health so try enjoy life best we can off other pensions.

.

PJ

[walkingthedog]

Why would a layout look like it had woodworm if you moved your track. The holes for droppers or just a single feed are tiny and would disappear in seconds with the application of a pinch of dust. Also the bus doesn't have to follow the track. It can go straight up the middle. 

[Yelrow]

Hello WTD, do you have droppers, surely it would be illegal for a bus to go straight up the middle, although i accept they dont have tracks anymore. Seriously, 5 ovals of tracks, joiners /droppers every rail. Its a devil of a lot of holes/ soldering, that would need adjusting, in my case, weekly. Must be the nomad in me or french air. Poliss is right about kato track, dont often see it over here. john

[Graskie]

Aren't I rotten? I'll give you a piece of my mind, PJ. You're actually hoping to have "peace of mind." (lol)

[PJ_model_trains]

Hello WTD, do you have droppers, surely it would be illegal for a bus to go straight up the middle, although i accept they dont have tracks anymore. Seriously, 5 ovals of tracks, joiners /droppers every rail. Its a devil of a lot of holes/ soldering, that would need adjusting, in my case, weekly. Must be the nomad in me or french air. Poliss is right about kato track, dont often see it over here. john

Hello John

.

A bus could go up the middle John, but in most cases in the Uk, as I understand it the bus lanes are usually up one side. That is the English side unless a one way street ;o)  Seriously.....

You are thinking of your track/layout when discussing others and all that extra work,etc. You might change yours a lot, this doesn't mean the person asking the question will. 

.

Two small holes per standard track length (if you do all of them) is not like wood worm. Obviously if you have a large layout you will have more work but we do not know if a person has a large one or a small one (Stop) So let them decide based on the facts.

.

I do not think it is the French air John, but I am not there so don't know. Maybe it is the plonk, now I would love to be there to know ;o)  

.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Aren't I rotten? I'll give you a piece of my mind, PJ. You're actually hoping to have "peace of mind." (lol)

Smelling mitakes arrrh

You are very kind though Graskie, can I have a working piece. I am quite partial to a bit of peace though.

It seems a bit of a puzzle until it is pieced together ;o)

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Why would a layout look like it had woodworm if you moved your track. The holes for droppers or just a single feed are tiny and would disappear in seconds with the application of a pinch of dust. Also the bus doesn't have to follow the track. It can go straight up the middle. 

Hello WTD

The reason they are like wood worm is because you are feeding them!!!!  

.

'just a single feed'  may I ask is this once a day ;o)

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I wish we had emoticons, sometimes a smile can show you mean something as a joke or a little humour.

PJ

[walkingthedog]

Yes it would be nice to be able to indicate a joke. I used to give my layout a single feed but have increased it to several feeds. 

Since I retired I've reverted to 2 hourly feeds.

[PJ_model_trains]

Yes it would be nice to be able to indicate a joke. I used to give my layout a single feed but have increased it to several feeds. 

Since I retired I've reverted to 2 hourly feeds.

Hi WTD

I bet they are bottle feeds!   Question is what is in the bottles.

How many % proof!

PJ

[john_doman]

Hello all, first time poster.

I run a 12 x 4 DCC layout with a double loop, 2 goods yards and a termus. I use an NCE Powercab, previously used a Select. I found both work well with the layout size, just prefer the powercab (hand-held).

On occasion, I found that locomotivs were stuttering/cutting out on sidings, or in the goods yards. I have not gone the whole 9 yards with a Bus (every piece of track), as this seems ovr the top, however, I have run one with droppers in 6-7 points of the layout - 2 on each main loop, and others in yards, where occasionally the point clips do not consistently feed the power. It has made slow running in yards better, particularly with 0-6-0 types such as the 08, and the Pannier.

I am also in the process of soldering the rail joins, so that the fishplates are not the sole conduit for power. The result is that slow running is improved for loco's that do not have as many pichups (ie 0-6-0). Diesels and 4-6-0 loco's with tender pickups are generally good. 

As an aside, nor sure why Hornby made the Tornado without tender pickups, although it runs well regardless.

For continuity of power, the biggest thing for me is track/wheel cleanliness, a constant task as my layout is in a garage, where dust, et is a hassle.

[poliss]

It's not advisable to solder the rail joins. As the track and or baseboard expands it can cause the track to buckle.