stevecamden Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I thought I would run this by you Rm experts before I embark...With 2 points on a crossover ( wanting to throw both points at the same time), I don't know if there is enough 'juice' in the decoder to throw two at once and I also don't know if RM will sequence two actions in quick succession. ( re all the occasional missed commands which I too have experienced)So, I thought about allocating the numbers of the two decoders to be the same. 61,62,63,64 for example and then issue a RM command to activate 61 - I would hope that the two points would activate at the same time.I haven't experimented with spurring the points off one decoder port, but I suspect if one of them is a bit sticky then it wouldn't throw both and in addition I don't want intermitent action - sometimes working - sometimes not.What do you think?Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy25 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hi Steve,Yes that would work, as all you are doing is having two accessory decoders with each port addressed the same.So yes when you activate address 61 all ports with address 61 will fire.I'm just not too sure how long the recharge time would be as they would both need to recharge after the first fire, so drawing a fair bit of power which could lead to trains slowing or maybe even stopping.I have two points connected into one port and they both move OK, there is a fair amount of power from the built in CDU's.I would also go for the Pe** low power point motors just to be doubly sure if it concerns you.If you have the accessory decoders I would just connect them up on a bench with motors attached and try them to see what happens.RegardsIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Thanks Ian - I intend to check it out and had thought that I would run the point decoders off a separate power supply - the Hornby Digital power booster, if as you say it can't handle the recharge of two decoders recharging at the same time or one decoder recharging due to a double throw. Fact is, I just don't know yet how 'good' the decoders are at supplying a 'punch' and recharge.I think the problems will arise if there is 'multiple' fast route switching say 4 points over even 5 secs, but I'll do some tests. And 'sticky' points of course.It would be interesting if anyone has used the Digital signal and power booster just to drive the point and accessory decoders?S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 a single decoder can normally throw two points connected to the same port without problem.Also the decoders don't draw that much current when re-charging so you shouldn't have an issue with two recharging at the same time - especially if only one point is being operated on each decoder as they will only be partially discharged anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Well thanks for that - anything to prevent having to purchase a power booster, they are quite expenisve.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpjallan Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 stevecamden said:Thanks Ian - I intend to check it out and had thought that I would run the point decoders off a separate power supply - the Hornby Digital power booster,SThis is what I am planning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Guys,before you buy a booster I suggest that you check with hornby re the benefit in terms of driving accessory decoders.Duplicate AddressingI suggest that you be wary of having two decoders with the same address. It might work fine but be aware that there are messages that come back from the elite to the pc with point status. if two devices have the same address I am not sure what will happen.personally I have drive two (hornby) point motors from a single (non-hornby LS-150) output. I have head of others using the hornby decoders to drive two motors.If you have a sticky motor it is worth the time and effort to fix. It will always come back to haunt you. If you are using railmaster for auto control then reliable point operation is essential.BoosterIf you use a booster then this would make available more power to the decoders BUT I doubt individual decoders could consume additional power. this means the recharge time would not change.If you are trying to run more locos then your current supply can manage then a booster would be useful. I run 3 locos simultaneously with an elite. this is all i (my head/layout - not power supply) can cope with.how many do you want to run?How many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Guys,before you buy a booster I suggest that you check with hornby re the benefit in terms of driving accessory decoders.Duplicate AddressingI suggest that you be wary of having two decoders with the same address. It might work fine but be aware that there are messages that come back from the elite to the pc with point status. if two devices have the same address I am not sure what will happen.personally I have drive two (hornby) point motors from a single (non-hornby LS-150) output. I have head of others using the hornby decoders to drive two motors.If you have a sticky motor it is worth the time and effort to fix. It will always come back to haunt you. If you are using railmaster for auto control then reliable point operation is essential.BoosterIf you use a booster then this would make available more power to the decoders BUT I doubt individual decoders could consume additional power. this means the recharge time would not change.If you are trying to run more locos then your current supply can manage then a booster would be useful. I run 3 locos simultaneously with an elite. this is all i (my head/layout - not power supply) can cope with.how many do you want to run?How many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hi GregOnly really came up with the power booster if the draw on the main supply might interfere with the smooth running of the trains, but it seems that the recahrge doesn't take that much current - I never expected it to quicken the recharge time.No of trains - 3 perhaps 4 - I find controlling two keeps me on my toes....Sticky point - yes I agree - I have some solvent degreaser that works a trick to ease them. I don't want to be haunted.You make a good point about 'point status' - not thought about that one, but presumambly if the status is always the same for the two points ( on a crossover) then does it matter? On the layout I would only show ( indicate) one point set for the crossover anyway ( not two)Keep all your input coming - many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMSTim Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 General rules for points:-1. Ensure the point is not 'sticky' in the first place. If a point is sticky due to a Hornby solenoid point motor then you will find that using a pair of pointed nose large pliers to very subtly squeeze together or tease apart the two ends (coils) of the point motor make the armature slide much better. I have found this to be the main cause of sticky points. You shouldn't need to use grease or lubricant. If the point and mote work well in the first place then that's half the battle won. RailMaster fires points twice, with a slight pause, in case a point is sticky.2. Don't use the same address for two different output ports on different accessory decoders. It WILL cause confusion with the Elite and RailMaster - if not now then later.3. You can definitely fire two point motors from the same decoder port with no problems.4. Locos will not be affected by recharging of accessory decoders as the decoders trickle charge so that they specifically don't draw too much power too quickly from the track.I regularly fire multiple points on routes with no problems at all using Hornby points, Hornby point motors and Hornby accessory decoders.Remember that the Hornby point motors were not designed with computer control or any kind of automation in mind, so if your application is critical, maybe you should consider gear-driven point motors, but they are at least four times the cost of the Hornby ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace10086 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I suggest that you be wary of having two decoders with the same address. It might work fine but be aware that there are messages that come back from the elite to the pc with point status. if two devices have the same address I am not sure what will happen.Are you sure? The Elite has no way of knowing the status of the points, its a pure fire and forget method being used from the Elite to the decoder so I assume the same from RailMaster to the Elite with no reverse communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for that.Do you know something we don't re 'It WILL cause confusion with the Elite and RailMaster - if not now then later.'I intend to 'share' a decoder position with two points now.The reference to the sticky bit originally was the point ( an old one) not the motor although your tip is very useful. Actually, and I am sure I will get slated for this, it was a spray from Wickes called Multi-solve that I applied ( not too liberally) on the 'sticky' point and I have to say 30 secs later it moves like a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 stevecamden said:Actually, and I am sure I will get slated for this, it was a spray from Wickes called Multi-solve that I applied ( not too liberally) on the 'sticky' point and I have to say 30 secs later it moves like a new one.the issue is not so much what it does in 30 seconds..... but what it will do in a few weeks. Not sure what "multi-solve" is but if it dries to gunk then you will have a bit of a cleaning job.most likely stickiness is due to a mechanical issue - base board not flat, points bent... - that will be masked for a time by the gunk added.good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 HiI use Seep Point motorswhen fitting them with the 2 screws I leave them slightly slackthis lets the whole PBC move very slightlyThis helps with alignement and avoids any tension in the set upi have never had any problems doing thisRgdsMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarfboysim Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi all,I have a couple of sets of points that I want to change at the same time. For each case I have wired 2 sets to the same port of the decoder. Works a treat :)Thanks,Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Caution:For those intending to use a power booster, please be aware that these are a purpose specific device that must be connected a) to an isolated power district on your layout and b) to the booster tags on the Elite, so that DCC commands can be passed from the Elite to that isolated track section.You must not connect a power booster and an Elite direct to the same section, else you will damage the Elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 hihe was not intending to connect them both to the same district ( i think !!)i think he was intending to have 2 bus round the lay out1 from the elite to drive the locos1 from the booster to drive the pints etcthats the way i understand it to workthe connection fron elite to booster is just to pass the control codes to the boostermike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 hihe was not intending to connect them both to the same district ( i think !!)i think he was intending to have 2 bus round the lay out1 from the elite to drive the locos1 from the booster to drive the pints etcthats the way i understand it to workthe connection fron elite to booster is just to pass the control codes to the boostermike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigwint Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 hi guys just to say i have a layout about 20x12 four loops and plenty of sidings ecti have 12 hornby point decoders and 8 of these are working in tandem to drive sets of points with the same address, i can run 4 locos and change points with no problems apart from knowing which way to look, needless to say i use computer control else i would get lost with all the button pushing on the elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerhols Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 LMSTim said:General rules for points:-1. Ensure the point is not 'sticky' in the first place. If a point is sticky due to a Hornby solenoid point motor then you will find that using a pair of pointed nose large pliers to very subtly squeeze together or tease apart the two ends (coils) of the point motor make the armature slide much better. I have found this to be the main cause of sticky points. You shouldn't need to use grease or lubricant. If the point and mote work well in the first place then that's half the battle won. RailMaster fires points twice, with a slight pause, in case a point is sticky.2. Don't use the same address for two different output ports on different accessory decoders. It WILL cause confusion with the Elite and RailMaster - if not now then later.3. You can definitely fire two point motors from the same decoder port with no problems.4. Locos will not be affected by recharging of accessory decoders as the decoders trickle charge so that they specifically don't draw too much power too quickly from the track.I regularly fire multiple points on routes with no problems at all using Hornby points, Hornby point motors and Hornby accessory decoders.Remember that the Hornby point motors were not designed with computer control or any kind of automation in mind, so if your application is critical, maybe you should consider gear-driven point motors, but they are at least four times the cost of the Hornby ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerhols Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Dear all, I have been re-reading this thread with interest. Its been about a year since I have last communicated on this forum, and in that time my layout has begun to take shape, although still way off completion. The eventual plan is to run 5 trains (4 on continuous run and one branch line), and have 40 points (all with surface mounted pe-o motors) with an Elite and Railmaster control. Last week the first two trains ran and and the first two points moved using the Railmaster as the the controller - v exciting!Some questions to you all if I may:1. Regarding crossovers and throwing two points together, presumeably if I wire both points from one decoder output then Railmaster will only show one point moving not both....should I remove the green and red 'switches' from the other point? is this the best way to do this?2. There seem to be two types of Hornby decoder for points - which one is better please?3. One of my two operational points doesn't throw well and sometimes sticks halfway - any views?4. Will the Elite be 'man enough' to power 5 locos and 40 points?Really hope to hear back with your views, cheers now Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecamden Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 1. Yes,thats the way I have done it.2. Only use the R8247 ( later model) I don't think the 'old' one is made now but may be in model shops so check.3. Have to be very flat, no obstruction no catching etc. Do they throw individually well? If so, have you wired the poin motor to the decoder correctly?5 Yes - The CDU's charge very quickly and you are rarely switching points in such succession that the Elite can't cope.Good fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David55 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Re question one. If you name both points with the same number and leave the buttons in place,You can use either to move the points and Railmaster will show them both movingOn question 3 as Steve says they need to be perfectly flat, this could also be caused by pinning the track down too near the points.On question 4, I run 8 locos with 29 points on my track with no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerhols Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 David and Steve - really helpful, thanks guys, Johnnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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