Rana Temporia

Eric, Westhoughton so not too far away and my work is based in Warrington but I do a lot of driving around the NW! Also of interest to this thread is the fact that early in the 1900s there was an overhead electric loco of similar appearance in Westhoughton Boiler Works that was fed from two overhead wires trolley bus style, try modelling that! After the First World War it was replaced with a 4WD military truck on rail wheels for shunting as the boiler works had been taken over by the Admiralty to make naval guns. I have a similar loco to the one LC&DR has shown on the Tanfield Railway that came out of a junk box at a swapmeet. I think it's Lima from the mechanism but there isn't a maker's name anywhere on it. Lima brushes and springs fit the ringfield motor. It's not a great runner and I replaced the broken pantograph with a Jouef one years ago. It says SNCF on it but I have no idea if the prototype it's based on was French. Both my versions of the Tri-ang loco Tony57 refers to run great Although the red one doesn't have the plastic non-operational pantograph on it. ☹️

Writing the reply to the fireless loco post reminded me of this that I meant to post a week ago! Not all industrial railways were small tank locos and diesel shutters. The Lancashire Electric Power Co Ltd operated Kearsley Power Station between Bolton and Manchester and had a fleet of overhead electric locos Which I can remember from travelling to Manchester on the train when very young. This picture is from "The Industrial Railways of Bolton, Bury and the Manchester Coalfield Part 1 Bolton and Bury by C H A Townley, C A Appleton, F D Smith and J A Peden. An excellent series of three books that has a multitude of photos and information on the industrial railways of this area. At least one of these locos survives having been converted to batter power and used at Heysham Nuclear Power Station, I think it is at the Greater Manchester Museum of Science and Technology now. /media/tinymce_upload/3be0ed35f5eeae6a6ca06b51857b8b0a.jpg

Eric, it was still there next to the bypass last year. I remember it in the park in Eccles!

LC&DR looks like we both posted at the same time! 😉

There are two HO fireless locos available, an 040 and an 060 and with them being industrial the difference in size won’t matter. I am not sure who makes them but they may be part of the Hornby family. Someone was selling them a few years ago with UK type couplings so if part of the Hornby group they should be easy to provide in the UK As they did with the NCB shunter and the GWR saddle tank. I have started a representative of one using a damaged 06 on a Desmond chassis and a tank wagon body For the steam tank. Luckily the Desmond chassis fits the 06 back to front so the cylinders are where they should be, under the cab. The wheelbase will be way too long but it already looks the part. Not sure when it will be finished as I have rather a lot on at the moment. I think the first prototype I saw was at the Dinting railway centre (long gone), there is one at the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology and at least one at the Ribble Steam Railway. There was one stored at Kearsley Power Station (Bolton) at one point which I think was pale blue or green. I was working in the area at the time and it’s a lonG time ago. There were several diesel shunters as well but the BO BO electric locos had gone.

JJ great model and review, I thought it was this loco; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwjBioqM5uflAhWBr3EKHSz3C4E4ChCjtAEwAHoECAAQAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRUSjQQ716GY&usg=AOvVaw3Xfuvp9k8Njz20XsugGtU_ I have a few of these but they are much older models and not as detailed as this one, and most definitely not DCC. These locos were built in the USA after the Second World War to replace those lost during the conflict. There are afew variations including different wheels And different fuel, some are oil burners so are they really diesels? When we had a very limited range of models available and people made kits the chassis and motorised tender from the Jouef version with boxpox type wheels was used to power the DJH WD 280 loco. As already stated the Lima version of this loco is much poorer. Despite these locos being 282 (or 141 in continental speak) and having an 8 wheel tender they.Will go round 1st radius curves with no problem, as amazingly so will the new Big Boy. There is a video of a DCC sound fitted example of this model on the web with the most annoying whistle sound imaginable. I checked some prototype video on line and the model whistle sounds nothing like it at all. The steam sound is quite accurate though.

JJ no-one recycled much in the early 1970s. Everything went into the bin and then into a hole in the ground or a heap somewhere where the leachate leaked into the environmenT with no control measures whatsoever. If you want to see some of the legacy of this have a walk round parts of certain towns where the brown leachate is still flowing from the chemical tips into the rivers and canals and it’s really visible.

JJ if it’s the loco I think I have several of the Jouef version. There is a Lima version too but it’s pretty poor. Two main types, coal burning and oil burning and either black or green. Great locos!

/media/tinymce_upload/9fe7ea28452e00fca47a6010d985507e.JPG I thought I'd post this to show it doesnt always go as planned...... I got this interesting 00 clockwork loco which I think is Wells Brimtoy, definately made in England and decided to fix it. On dismantling I found the spring was OK and all the bits were there. The problem was with the three pointed fitting behind the spring which allowed the cog to turn but engaged the drive if rotated by the spring. Two of the three clips had broken off so I fixed the cog in place with some strips of steel folded around the fitting and pushed through the holed before clamping them tightly in place. I wasn't bothered about the clips as I would never be overtightening it. After some fun re-assembling everything (good job I took photos!!!) the loco worked perfectly.... for a while. It suddenly jammed solid, when I tried to move it the spring relaeased and fired the body off the chassis. Back to square one!!! /media/tinymce_upload/eff4fee74d9e13d2c4b678dd5e5aaf8e.JPG This is the mechanism /media/tinymce_upload/2d0f696792bfe433ce75944514acc942.JPG The damaged clip /media/tinymce_upload/492d43e1a2e03f6b53b12be2289f7050.JPG The steel in place. /media/tinymce_upload/1da1314b976bf908129a18575ce7eea2.JPG Alll ready to be fitted back. Unfortunately I didn't take a photo of the loco in it's re-assembled state. /media/tinymce_upload/8fe7ce28b8658c4fde746bb0b3506f65.JPG And back to square one.... ☹️

With the old locos the frames were often open as per the FR Bury type. Not much space to hide a mechanism but they often had 4 wheel tenders that a spud or black beetle could power and leave plenty of room for detail. I’m not sure if anyone still makes early type wheels, i think Ks did at one point?

Hornby Dublo, Trix (and Hornby Acho and Playcraft but they are HO) will all couple, the metal couplings being better than the plastic ones. The Hornby Dublo wagons even with new wheels aren’t as free running as modern stock and you’ll need a loco with sufficient power to move them without damaging the motor e.g. Hornby Dublo, Tri-ang or Wrenn. I have replaced the complete chassis on some of my HD wagons with more modern Lima ones which are the correct length, this will probably annoy the purists but at least I can run them with modern stock and the couplings match.

JJ have a look at this website; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwilq4mZg9XlAhX_QUEAHXDnBRYQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebigbigtrain.com%2F&usg=AOvVaw3GJ3G24TbyAE4MZV1Mc10P The locos were battery powered and had two switches, one for on/off and the other for direction. There was a lineside switch that could send the loco back from a dead end (if the batteries were good). It was really two scales, the Hymek was a reasonable scale 0 gauge model that is still used today by people to update to 12v operation. There were also reasonable O scale 16T mineral wagons in various colours and BR coaches, again still used by people to upgrade. The diesel shunter and steam locos ran on the same track but were more narrow gauge in appearance and there were appropriate narrow gauge type wagons, again in various colours. Oddly there were a continental 0 scale coach, US style caboose and gondola with no appropriate locos to pull them unless you include the 060 tank which I think was more narrow gauge. This may suggest that there were plans to introduce a Transcontinental type range. As a child I didn’t worry too much about the different scales or origins of the rolling stock and ran everything together. I went through a lot of batteries which can’t have been good for the planet!

JJ here is a link, hope It works, these trains were O gauge and battery powered. https://images.app.goo.gl/c4aDBep29raAXp8ZACol

Just had a look at the pics and first impression is it reminds me of the yellow Tri-ang Big Big Ruston shunter I had as a kid with some green and red tipper trucks.

LC&DR, excellent wagons! Eric, I believe the Ribble Steam Railway has the only operational swing bridge on a preserved line in the UK? That would make an interesting model. I know there were a number of layouts built in the 70s using the Tri-ang Hornby lifting bridge which I think was made by Pola. One of those could be substituted if it could be found for a reasonable price. This reminds me I need to go there again, even though I am only 25mins away it’s years since I went.

Sarah I have several clockwork top tanks in a multitude of colours but only black electric ones. The one I saw yesterday was electric and I checked the inside of the body to see if it had been overpainted but the body was definitely Khaki and it’s the only example I have ever seen in that colour. It had also never been clockwork as the hole wasn’t there. I know the battlespace stickers were available as spares and there is someone selling replicas online so it wouldn’t be difficult to Have added them or do it now. The 08 I referred to was in a set that was available in the late 80s so would have ben Hornby. One of the pop-up Christmas shops near me had a load they were clearing out in January but I was unemployed at the time and couldn’t justify buying them even though they were at a silly price. (I did get rather a lot of stuff out of a 10p tray though, they must have done a shop clearance). I’m sure that was khaki with the battle space logos on. I have read about the eye damaging turbo car and the fact that several embedded themselves in walls after flying off the track. Sounds like fun! I would also like to point out that the satellite tracking car would probably not pass safety tests as the flashing light could impact people prone to fits and the radar could provide a choking hazard. 😉 I got two of the rocket launchers on the bolster wagon as part of a job lot and the missiles not being readily available I looked online and bought some missile shaped pens from China off an online auction site. My partner still hasn’t noticed the ding in the ceiling where I tested them! Can you still buy caps? If so I bet they cost a lot more than they used to and have less gunpowder in them.

I have seen the Jinty, the north British diesel shunter and the 08 shunter but never the top tank before. I used to have some of the wagons when i was young including the plane launching one. Maybe Hornby should re-introduce some of them for the play value? The helicopter car and satellite launching car would be a good start.

I was at the swapmeet today at Bolton’s ground which I have no idea what it is called anymore But I know it’s not Reebok or Macron now. One of the stallholders had a tray with battlespace items in it and among the khaki jinty and missile launchers was a khaki top tank with the battle space logos on it. Thinking it was a re-paint I had a good look at it and checking inside the loco the plastic was khaki, so at least the colour was original. I have never seen this loco before but couldn’t justify the asking price. Has anyone else seen this loco before? I’m assuming if it is original then it was a very rare loco and maybe I should have found the cash but I have no need for it. Any information on what set it was in and when it was from?

Maybe even better would be to model an independent light railway, Colonel Stephens style. You could then run just about anything with anything Including mixed trains of passenger and goods stock. There are lots of books on this subject and probably loads of information online though I have only really browsed for some of the ones local to me. Many of the independent light railways used cast-offs from the mainline railway companies for locos,coaches and wagons, and others had locos specially built for them, often defaulting on the payments and ending up with worn-out replacements. Many would make a ‘prototype for everything’ using railbuses from various sources. Some even had tender locos. For a bit of inspiration look up the Garstang and Knott End Railway from the NW of England which had its own locos and some American style bogie coaches. At one end of the railway was a salt works with its own locos and fleet of wagons that were transported to the WCML at Garstang by the railway. There is a very good book on this line by R W Rush and M R C Price that covers the history of the line and even has scale drawings of the locos and rolling stock along with some of the major buildings. The locos owned by the railway were typical industrial style adapted for mixed traffic work and later in the life of the line Black 5s and other mainline tender locos were used. You could also try to find the books ‘British Independent Light Railways’ bu John Scott-Morgan or ‘The Colonel Stephens Railways’ by the same author.

I had one of these that the gears caught on the side of the chassis and made a similar noise. Fixed by replacing a gear that the central hole had become worn on but then they were easy to get hold of.

When i had a similar problem with several continental locos I’d bought as a job lot I took them to an Engineer friend of mine who checked the thread for me. I don’t know what the tool was called but I have some large ones in my box of BA taps, they are circular with a thread in the centre and they turn down the screw/bolt and you find the one that fits. (I hope this makes sense?). The nuts I needed were 1.6mm and easily found. I think the Lima ones are bigger and will probably also be a metric thread so it might be worth asking around if anyone you know has these particular tools? The nuts will be pennies off the internet but you will need the right size.

It can be difficult to fit the bodies to the chassis for these exact reasons as the body is now too small and many break at the buffer beam where it meets the end of the chassis. The original version should have steps at the corners of the buffer beams but I have only ever seen one model with these still intact as cellulose acetate is very brittle as well as being unstable and breaks easily. Not every item moulded in this plastic has distorted. I have one of the early bodies that is quite straight and a couple of the early 6” LMS coaches that are straight. With the Grafar Pullmans I have seen a lot with straight bodies but double dip roofs. Locos affected by the plastic distortion are the Princess, the jinty, the Baltic tank and the transcontinental pacific, especially the tender which can be difficult to get more than 2 of the 4 axles on the track in a bad example. I think some of the 3MT tanks were as well but I have never had an example with this problem. Most of the early wagons can be found with bad distortion and the LMS and BR 6” coacheS. The early station platforms and buildings and as mentioned the very early track.

The chassis shown is the correct one for the early body with the lead weight. The chassis has plastic wheels, the plungers and I think the motor fits in between the chassis with protrusions from the motor frame fitting into slots int he chassis. the MK2 motor certainly does as I have had the annoying experience of rebuilding one. You can’t just swap an earlier motor into one of the later chassis frames without altering it. You also have to totally dismantle the chassis to get the motor in which means re-fitting and quartering the wheels. There is a service sheet available for this loco. Do a search as the link was posted on here some time ago. This motor has a commutator that the brushes rub on the face of rather than the more usual barrel type. I have a couple of these which work but have sold off all my other spare parts. The motors are very old and I had one totally disintegrate while running so even if you do find one it’s better as a curiosity rather than an operational model. As the plungers lift the back of the loco off the track the lead is there to try and get some adhesion. With the tender the maximum load for these locos is around 2 of the early coaches. The couplings should also be the very early type. Mine run well on modern track as long as it’s clean but don’t like points or dirty track as they are only picking up from the plungers. Grafar made some 2 rail plunger locos in the 60s as well. I would look for a genuine chassis rather than try to build one up. They do come up more regularly than you’d think. Getting a fully working chassis is another story.....

LC&DR, the Trackmaster model is more or less scale length unlike the short Hornby Dublo one. The Gaiety version seems to have been a copy of the Dublo one and even used the Dublo LMS number with a 4 in front to represent a BR loco. The number was cast onto the body. I have posted some photos of a 3 rail Gaiety chassis on here in the past. I had only got rid of a body a short time before! Interestingly the chap in the model shop I found it in had never heard of Trackmaster.

This was an unexpected find today and at a bargain price too! This is the best condition I have seen one of these locos in. A shame the spring and drive cog are missing but I have some Tri-ang versions with working mechanisms that can be swapped over. I won’t say what the make is.....just that Tri-ang bought the equipment to make them and I think it was the only metal bodied loco they ever made. Main difference looking at one of my later ones is the rear coupling. /media/tinymce_upload/b8d09952570e902146046eb809483827.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/ef0770ea094d38052608740ca1832dc6.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/be6acd08abe9dee65bb3172bbcb784b0.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/4230f1f6b7a258c9df7e5c34b722e022.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/5793ad615a9f11506026b61c1f339500.jpg