Rana Temporia

One potential source of this chassis if it was the Princess one would have been a Hiawatha type with the bulb fitting in front to emulate the firebox glow of the Scotsman fitted in reverse. I say this as I once saw a job lot of Hornby Dublo and later Hornby Pacific locos (including a Flying Scotsman) for sale on an online auction site which looked like an absolute bargain and plenty of people were bidding. However, on closer examination ALL were bodies resting on Tri-ang Princess chassis Which were way too short for some of the locos and many were the simple version with no valve gear. As always, check the photos if you decide to bid!!!!! I have no idea if the princess chassis could be fitted to the Scotsman body in reverse but would have thought it would be more trouble than it was worth. To fit the cylinders and correct pony there would be modification needed, and drilling and tapping to fit the extension piece which is beyond most people nowadays. You can get a replacement Scotsman chassis for less than £10 if you shop around (the last one I got I paid £6 for) and even though I have the drills and taps I couldn’t be bothered to modify something to save this amount of money.

Thanks Bill, the model shop I would normally go to has closed down due to retirement and my only local shop now just does one range of paints In aircraft colours only. All their other paints are pre-mixed in tubes for airbrushing. The other shop had a huge range of acrylic paint that was easy to blend and I could match most models pretty closely. I will be near another shop tomorrow so will try their range, other than that I will try precision Paints. I suppose I could also try Hobbycraft, i think they still do Humbrol. I could always get the nearest to from Halfords and do complete resprays but it’s not needed, i just need to do a bit of touching up. Also, not sure i could get the glazing out in one piece on a couple of them........

I’m not sure this post is 100% legit but the scotsman chassis was B12/hall/ivatt and possibly more including the non-prototypical original black 5. I don’t think the early princess chassis was used in anything other than the Baltic tank and Hiawatha and in a very modified form the very first version of the Britannia. All were the right way round. The later Princess chassis (screw in front of the smokebox) was used in the later Hiawatha, Maroon Baltic Tank, Britannia including the ringfield version and the Winston Churchill with different wheels. Easy to tell from the original as the cylinders fit underneath the metal chassis, the original fitted on the top.

I have several Jouef, Hornby Acho etc BB9200 and BB 16000 locos that need the paintwork touching up but my local model shop can’t provide a match to the greeny/blue. Does anyone know of a near match available in the UK?

If you do some research you might find a lot on this. Two I am aware of are a Hornby Dublo Deltic that hauled a child on a specially built carriage to show the power of the new motor. Secondly, Windscale (or Sellafield as it’s now known) used a Hornby Dublo 264 tank to transport stuff within the highly radioactive atmosphere somwhere in the plant. I remember seeing some black and white film of this once. Not sure of all the details.

Sarah, I do like the TT book, I was going to order mine online and then came across someone selling it at the Bolton Swapmeet last year. Maybe it‘s a separate thread but what ranges are there left to write history on. Hornby Dublo has been done, Maurice Gunter has done the history of Wrenn in several volumes. There is the history of Trix railways but I don’t have that book so can’t comment on whether it is the UK production or all the Trix range. My own preference would be for the Playcraft range starting with the Jouef 6v models through to the Playcraft International branding and including the development of some of the UK models into the standard Jouef range which included the D6100 and the Royal Mail operating coach. It could also include the HOe Playcraft and Eggerbahn narrow gauge ranges. I have thought of doing one but I know I won’t have the time. The Playcraft range is easy to fix, just like the early Tri-ang models as they standardised on parts including motors over many years so the bits are easy to find. Also, how about the 00 Grafar range (could include the British made N range) or the Lima British range with the huge locos in N and including the O, HO and OO British ranges. The history of Merit would be interesting if all the separate bits could be catalogued fully. My iPad isn’t letting me copy links but for anyone who is interested in Playcraft and/or Jouef there is an excellent French website. If you look up Lestrainsjouef and click the English tab on the fist page there is a lot of information on the models there including the service sheets where one was produced.

Also, not Hornby but a very good book! /media/tinymce_upload/d82db36f760894c433f83caacfd04f0b.jpg

Don’t forget this one....seen as a companion to the Pat Hammond series. /media/tinymce_upload/9fb8dc512cdad6fbebf9d66e7393fffa.jpg

I think the 507/8 and the original LMS design Merseyside electrics were made as kits by MTK. I have the Liverpool/Southport parcels car they made. I think some of the MTK kits were re-issued under a different name but can’t remember what that was. The MTK kits were a mix of poorly shaped aluminium bodies and cast detail parts that didn’t fit very well, I made a few before we had a choice of decent multiple unit models available, fitted with Tri-ang Hymek bogies with a shortened wheelbase on the MTK plastic frame. I think the worms had to be moved in 2mm each end of the aramature and the bogie just about fit back together. DC Kits may have produced some more modern kits for these EMUs and if so will be much easier to build and look more realistic. Much easier to motorise too! RTR would be good but with limited geographical appeal unless they could be made to be easily adaptable as suggested I think it’s unlikely.

And don’t forget the paperback Tri-ang Hornby book pf trains with Flying Scotsman on the cover. 😀

For anyone that has one of these locos with a broken motor I can confirm that the standard 040 motor is a perfect fit apart from the extended shaft at the rear. You can’t re-attach the flywheel and you have to solder the wires to the pads on the motor. I have even temporarily left the plastic worm in place as I can’t find my worm puller.

/media/tinymce_upload/ff81f9cea35474d46632aaf29b6331a7.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/f501436df8ed0148e17b0593918322fb.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/e3ed6101171ee167c85fa41dbfebbb3f.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/091ef8dc09c46249369c5fd28edf26c1.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/e41f1778280ddc074b2e17fec5954ad3.JPG In addition to an earlier post regarding a very old Jouef BB9200 I recently managed to obtain one of the even earlier versions with a motor bogie full of gears as a box of bits. Amazingly when I put it back together it was complete apart from one screw but it needed a lot of straightening, cleaning and lubrication to get it functioning. I had to remove a lot of carpet from the mechanism which was jammed around everything and clean all the contacts! This is one of the first versions which has a 6v motor, just like the original pacific loco. Once it's running it is virtually impossible to stop as it coasts for ages once the power is switched off. It also moves off as soon as any current is applied from the controller. Have a look at the photos which for some reason have gone in the wrong way round! They show the parts of the bogie that needed cleaning to get it to work. The large headed screw on the bogie was there temorarily to check it all worked. I found a correct one later.

If you are collecting the early Tri-ang locos most if not all of the UK models were in self coloured plastic apart from cab roofs, buffer beams, smoke boxes etc so any with paint on the main part of the body will not be original. Also, the plastic used did not mean they the transfers used stayed stuck for very long so most of the early jinties, princesses, 3MT tanks etc. Are very unlikely to have original decals in good condition. Even the later heat printed locos are likely to have rubbings of the decals as these locos were produced as toys and were in the main treated as such. Some of the early locos produced overseas had painted bodies, I think the Australian maroon Baltic tank had a painted body. The black paint in particular that was used back then tends to rub off as well so you will probably have to touch that up, and if you find an exact match for the black they used please let me know as I usually have to re-do the whole area. Transfers are more difficult as the lining used was simplified so accurate depictions available from Fox transfers and others will not match the original. For the non prototypical locos such as the Transcontinental locos your only option is to purchase from online sources who produce these in small batches. For me, if I restore something to an approximation of it’s original condition it’s good enough. I don’t worry about the value of my ‘keepers’ as they are purely for my enjoyment, I don’t intend selling them. I may buy a loco for a better body, better chassis, new motor etc. And try to keep everything accurate to the right period. Who is to say it wasn’t next to the other one on the production line so it could have been put together with those parts in the factory. Motors, brushes, wheel insulators etc are all replaceable and wearable parts so i don’t worry about changing them. I also agree with Tony57, if I have better more modern wheels for the diesel/electric locos they get them. I have a Princess with a Mk2 motor that I rebuilt with an armature from an X03, I wouldn’t bother again as you have to dismantle the whole chassis to get the motor out and once it’s re-assembled you can’t tell, only I know and it was a pig of a job. They are your locos and you have to decide just how original you want them to be, unopened mint locos from the early years will cost accordingly and if you can’t get them out do you know if they work? It’s like buying an unopened Airfix or Kitmaster kit still in the shrink wrap, do you know what is actually in there because if you open it and look you have destroyed the value.

I think you need the chassis as you have to fit a captive nut in the loco during construction and you’d need to be sure that it would fit. It’s easier to modify the castings to fit before assembly. Sorry, I thought it was the older version of the 08 chassis it needed.

Was this model fitted with a smoke generator? I think Lord of the isles was, it might be gunky old smoke oil smelling.

These kits are old and the castings aren’t great. The GVT tram loco is the easiest to motorise as you can’t see the chassis so the much used ‘tram’ chassis can be fitted with a suitable adaptor plate available very cheaply off an online auction site. The kit recommends th Grafar 060 diesel chassis which is also incorrect as the prototype was an 0-4-2. The only problem with the tram chassis is the speed, I’m sure no NG loco ever went that fast. The other two, the James and Jeanette have been modified to take the same 060 chassis which makes them look a bit odd as they are representing an inside cylinder loco while the kit obviously has outside steam pipes. They were both originally meant to take the Arnold 060 chassis with outside cylinders. These are still available occasionally second hand but you might have to wait to be able to find one. I managed to fit a German Minitrix chassis to the side tank....just! If you can get hold of one of the GEM ‘manyways’ kits they take the much more easily found 060 Minitrix BR dockshunter chassis. I also found that mine went together more easily than the Peco kits. If you do go down the Peco route be prepared to do a lot of cleaning up of the castings and filling of gaps. If you use rapid set epoxy to put them together it is fairly good at filling small gaps but once it’s set it’s set! I have seen some very good models of these locos, it depends how much time you put into them.

I know this is an old thread but..... I just bough a box of fun off an online auction site because it had a Brimtoy 00 clockwork loco in it and some other parts I wanted. Amongst the other ‘junk‘ was an almost mint DCC railroad Flying Scotsman which is possibly the most modern loco I have but as expected the motor is dead. It hums and produces sparks that are visible through the cheapo white plastic but no movement whatsoever under power even after giving it a spin by hand. I know here and elsewhere there has been some suggestion that it may be possible to use the 040 motor. I have a few spare and a worm puller so swapping over the worm and flywheel isn’t an issue, but I don’t want to strip the loco down if it won’t fit. I don’t need the loco as i have a couple of Tri-ang versions that are more in keeping with my other stock so I’d just be repairing it for the sake of it really and I suspect it would be off on a journey somewhere shortly after. Has anyone used an 040 motor and did it do the trick? If not I might try it once I get the opportunity and post on here if it worked.

To add to my previous posts. Motion brackets!!!!! As I am off work today and it’s raining I decided to swap some later valve gear to an earlier Tri-ang Britannia. As I took the old valve gear off the chassis the motion bracket disintegrated. I have done this many time before and know how to handle them, the plastic had had it. As it was a second hand loco someone may have used a dodgy solvent or lubricant in the past or perhaps just like a lot of other Tri-ang components the plastic is getting past its use-by date. I think Peter’s spares had manufactured some Princess ones but if the original plastic is life-limited then in the near future there will be a big(ish) demand for motion brackets for the Princess (both types and the Hiawatha and Baltic tanks), 3MT (at least two types, one the same as the Princess), Britannia, Flying Scotsman etc. I know that there are NOS components about but they may suffer from the same problems. A business opportunity for someone with a 3D printer perhaps?

I think the original idea was a good one, and some of the Wrenn Range has been produced in this way, I just don’t know how viable it would be when Hornby responded to the requests that went on for years to produce UK models to Continental standards. The problem is that now we have them they are vey fragile and restricted to second radius curves. With a few exceptions I would not buy new lcoos to these standards, I much prefer the older locos that last, that work when I need them to and are repairable. I definitely don’t want a ‘shake and break’. The other problem as I have already mentioned is cost, most of the Tri-ang and early Hornby locos are easily available in good condition second hand for much less than even the railroad range,who would pay more for a new one that may or may not be made to the original standards and have their origins in toys? Volunteers assembling them may help keep the cost down but thankfully here in the UK we don’t have the working conditions we had in the past where we didn’t have a minimum wage and minimum working standards. Look at any old photo of a model railway factory and they are full of women, probably working for a pittance which is why they are now made in China or some other Far Eastern country where wages are lower. Certain locos may sell well, some of the rarer ones or unreleased versions of ones that the tooling still exists For. I would still be interested to see how big the potential market would be for example, a prototypical green Baltic Tank, the continental prairie in any colour or the Transcontinntal OH electric in VR or Tri-ang railways blue. Spares have more potential, Tri-ang Pantographs of both types, missiles for all the Battlespace range, the plastic spacers on the armatures for the A1A/EM2 etc. Original transfers for the Transcontinental range, 3MT tank or the Princess Locos. People are already making spares and selling them, I hope they are doing well and if the original tooling still exists Hornby should do a bit of market research to see if it would be a viable and profitable side business to start off. People like MR and Sarahagain could let Hornby know what parts are needed in sufficient quantity, my guesses are above.

Excellently done. I would have retained the original fibre light board to more closely recreate the original as it’s on view but that’s just me. For a loco with a full body 100% use Your LED light board. I have done some using stripboard and a handful of components which work just fine. Much better than the filament bulbs. Any more planned?

If you haven’t already had the motor out of the chassis the stiffness may be in the wheels/motion. Take the motor out and try rotating it, if it then rotates fine try rotating the wheels with the motor removed, if the stiffness is in the chassis try and find the source, are the wheels quartered correctly? Is there fluff or cotton wrapped around one of the axles etc? As stated above if the motor is getting hot either the magnet needs recharging or the motor is working to hard trying to drive a stiff chassis. Sarah’s advice on the rubbishy plastic worms is worth investigating, this was a problem with a Flying Scotsman i repaired for someone at work. It took me a while to find the problem and I suspect had been caused by someone trying to push the loco by hand, forcing the worm up the shaft. If you do take the magnet out slide it out of the motor onto an iron or steel ‘keeper’ which can be anything suitable or it will start to lose power immediately and make sure you mark it so that it goes back into the motor the same way round.

Great idea for SOME of the older models that are difficult to find but i wonder about pricing. If I wanted another shortie Princess i can often pick one up in reasonable condition for less than £10 in great working order and it will last virtually forever. A new one with perhaps a cheapie can motor is going to be £70 plus I would imagine. Who would buy it? Hornby could pick as many second hand chassis blocks and wheels off eBay for a song as they wanted so they wouldn’t need manufacturing, assuming the reproduction had the solid small diameter wheels. An option would be new bodies to fit older chassis but then even with the Princess, is it the screw down the chimney version or the one with the screwabove the buffer beam, Many members of the public wouldn’t know the difference and may suddenly find they have a body that doesn’t fit their chassis. The 3MT tank And Jinty also have a few variants. I have a blue princess so I wouldn’t buy one, I painted it myself and did some white/black lining on the computer. There was also a sticker kit available on line a while ago. Scanning rare items or parts for 3D print would be more useful, but how many people would want a scanned Baltic tank? I would like a Maroon one and I have a spare chassis but the Hiawatha front bogie and the special rear bogie are virtually impossible to get hold of at a sensible price, especially with the later couplings. Many of the missing bits are already being manufactured by others, such as Peter’s spares, there is even someone making nose cones for the battle space turbo car. A while ago someone was selling resin replicas of the Australian multiple unit that was made by Tri-ang. Replacement improvement parts would also be an option, I like the idea of 5 pole skew would armatures for older locos. However, how many people would actually know how to fit them? I can just imagine a sudden increase in the number of bearing clips and thrust bearings purchased for the dock shunter, blue Pullman, emu, dmu etc. As the originals find a new home in the carpet. I would hope it would improve business for those who do the repairs at the moment. An important point for Hornby might also be that if they were manufactured to the original spec, people might suddenly realise that they last longer and are repairable.....I think we have been here before.

#1 😆 Charity shops can be very good sources of railway books although they seem to be getting more aware of the value of items than they used to. I just picked up an excellent photographic book of the Ravengalss and Eskdale railway from one in Keswick for more than the published price but significantly less than it’s going for everywhere else.

JJ if you want to know what the names of the different parts are and how steam locos work I would suggest you look for this book by David Wilson which I got for 10p. /media/tinymce_upload/3a5f7f6361a644a19efc8779502a6c6d.jpg

If you go through the hall with the locos and the hot air engines and carry on you come to a building with the history of utilities in it, part of which is a recreation of a sewer with model rats and appropriate smells. There used to be a bog monster at the end that asked children what they could put down the toilet but apparently it frightened the little cherubs so it was taken away. My granddaughter loved it. “Can you put your poo down the toilet?” Etc.