Rana Temporia

In addition to my previous post some price comparisons from March 1976/media/tinymce_upload/175b7cc8548ccefdf3464cb163e92345.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/544f6c9b51381256fc029a8531620508.jpg

I found this advert, it was also in colour and there were some for the wagons but the majority of my old mags are difficult to get at. I will try and post some pics of actual coaches over the weekend. /media/tinymce_upload/9c7ecaeed7581b60597d657483997fd0.jpg

Your new controller probably doesn’t provide enough power for the old locos. Although the voltage is the same the older locos draw more amps and power is equal to amps times volts. Modern locos draw much less power and the controllers are made to match.

As my name is Colin too I hope I’ve not offended anyone! getting back to the original title I don’t think the plastic versions were particularly expensive in the 70s as I bought some. i used to get 40p a week and the Airfix wagon kits were 38p so it didn’t leave a lot if I bought one. I only ever bought one Wrenn wagon new, a lowmac that was half price as normally I simply couldn’t afford them. From what I remember the Grafar 00 wagons and coaches were comparable in price to Hornby, possibly a bit less. This may not have been the original case when the metal range was introduced As they may have been more expensive than the Tri-ang ones. I may go and have a look at some old mags if I get the chance and do some comparisons. Of interest is that some people are selling the coaches on an online auction site for ultra-silly prices. I recently picked some up from a model train fair for £1 each “cos no-one wants them.” I suppose it’s the same as someone trying to sell a Tri-ang Princess or Jinty for £40 when they usually go for around £7 Which is also around the cost of a second hand X04. Not good for people who have to make a living out of selling second hand stock!

Grafar were a major player in 00 at one time, maybe not for locos as the only loco they had for some time was the GWR 94xx which went through a number of improvements. Mine has a can motor and runs almost silently. Their range of wagons and coaches was well known, have a look at any model railway mag from the 1970s for some of their adverts. The early range was cast poor running wagons and some very heavy metal coaches that could be bought as kits and screwed together. They also did a range of cellulose acetate Pullman coaches. The later plastic coaches and wagons ran very well and were available in most model shops, certainly in the one I used to go in in Bolton on the way home from school had the full range next tot he Hornby boxes. There wasn’t a huge range of mouldings, they were mostly the same bodies with different names or railway company initials on them. I believe the coaches were based on LMS prototypes but were available in corridor and non-corridor types in GWR, SR, LMS, BR and LNER colours. The teak printing was very well done on these. The wagons were mostly private owner livieries and the original box vans were way too tall! The Terrys chocolates van is a classic! This use of the same mouldings in different colours was carried out by all manufacturers at the time. The couplings were a smaller version of the TRi-ang type but the coach bogies could be reversed and had fittings to add Tri-ang or Hornby Dublo type. Trix wagons also has the ability to mount Tri-ang couplings to replace the Dublo type. I have quite a few items from the Grafar 00 range and am happy to run them. The couplings don’t work as well as the Tri-ang ones but they are acceptable.

Thanks Sarah, that looks like the one. The wheels on Mine look to be different as it hasn’t got any pins or holes that could hold the rods seen on the green one. The black one must have been a cheaper version. The only Brimtoy product I know I had was a tinplate signal box that I used with my clockwork trains In the late 60s or early 70s.

Does anyone recognise this little clockwork loco? I got it in a box of Playcraft spares and I have never seen one before. I originally thought Trix or Hornby Dublo but it is much smaller than either, more HO. it’s obviously meant to represent something British. The brake has broken off and was part of a cast weight at the rear of the very simple mechanism which actually works surprisingly well. Any suggestions of who made it and what type of coupling it had would be gratefully received. /media/tinymce_upload/dbacb34abfe8de0a0750b8aebe4a3472.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/d89e6dce542f57eafd88a4b16b1e1fd0.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/a8628382db6822e13b0fdebfb7897790.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/c2a353aeeaefa2b9b1eac6d1838a4a48.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/f2b285567620d1e24ba1582c0358503f.jpg

I think Iron Duke was only available in a set (possibly for Littlewoods or some other catalogue) and was the Britannia without smoke deflectors and part of the valve gear missing to make it cheaper to make. If it’sthe One I’m thinking of it always had the motor in the loco which is an X04. If you have the original it probably just needs a service/cleaning/new brushes.

Great picture of the wooden box, I have seen examples of the loco but not the actual box before. I think the coaches were cellulose acetate like the Grafar Pullman coaches. Tri-ang also used the same plastic early on and it distorts over time leading to the warped and ‘sat-on’ look in the photo. The loco had a cast metal body which should be OK but a lot of the early Grafar loco bodies suffer from metal fatigue and disintegrate, as did some of their chassis. It’s not a new problem for the likes of Hornby and Bachmann!

Wagons were also used to move ‘night soil’ which was human excrement collected to be used as fertiliser in agricultural areas. There were special sidings to unload it near to the point of use. I won’t go into the possibilities of replicating the load on your model railway but it shows that people in the past knew about the importance of returning what we take from the soil. Nowadays it wouldn’t be possible due to the chemicals, medicines, hormones etc. That are in what we flush away and which would contaminate wherever it was used.

There are at least two versions of the Grafar ‘standard‘ locomotive which had a very large motor in the tender and drove the loco wheels via a flexible shaft through the cab. I think the driving wheels were plastic like the Tri-ang plunger princess. The differences were how the valve gear was connected to the body, a very early version was via a small pin to a bit of metal which tended to break. The later version had a much more substantial connection. I have had a couple of these and in both cases the motor worked perfectly but on one the driving wheels were disintegrating and the other the driving shaft was missing. I passed both on as I couldn’t be bothered to repair them. I know the Grafar Prairie tank was available with plunger pick-ups at least initially and they had at least one loco that was available in 3 rail. The American loco was huge! The only Grafar loco I have now is a pannier tank which picks up from the wheels and runs incredibly smoothly. It is a later version with finescale wheels and a large can motor. I wold like a set of the Grafar Pullman coaches as long as they were straight as most have warped roofs, but I would have to get them at a sensible price. I have a couple of sets of their coaches, a GWR corridor set and a BR non-corridor set. I also have some very old metal Grafar coaches but most of my locos won’t pull them. I was originally going to convert the BR set into a Manchester-Altrincham LMS built EMU but never got round to it, or at least haven’t done so far. I also have some of the ridiculously tall early box vans. I do like the Grafar models but they are very generic, no different to the other manufacturers ranges that were around at the same time. The plastic coaches and wagons run superbly, the early cast ones don’t.

As alancastrian i would tend t agree with Gordonvale, unfortunately I have had some very nice experiences in Hebden bridge.One of the bands I was in played there a couple of times in the late 80s at the Traders Club and we were made to feel very welcome. When we went out to get some food we asked some locals where the chippy was and they didn’t give us directions they took us there which was a good job as it was down some steps and in a cellar. Anyway, back to the thread... are the locos tank locos or bogie locos as there could be a short on certain types of bogie wheels if they have metal axles and only insulated on one side which would stop the trains working when placed on the track. If you have a multimeter rather than just an ammeter set the resistance to the lowest possible setting and touch the wheels on both sides. If the display comes up as zero you have a short through the wheels. Check both axles if it’s a 4 wheel bogie. I have found this to be a problem on a number of occasions with some makes of second hand stock.

One problem you may be experiencing with the track is the communal effect of all the above plus the resistance of steel (assuming it is steel track). You may find that if you get a loco working it slows down the further away from the controller it is. I have had a lot of problems like this while trying to use Tri-ang Standard and seres 3 track. The other problem may be that you say the track may be older, is it all 2 rail and not 3 rail? Has your layout got a return loop or other track design that could cause a short? You mention using an ammeter. They usually have to be in line with the item being tested so you’d have to have an ammeter as part of the circuit. A voltage difference can be taken with the meter across the rails and should be 12 to 15v for normal railway controllers on full. Some pictures of the track would be useful.

Not from the rails but..... I was on an assignment for the first 6 months of last year that involved a lot of time in London travelling down from Wigan, the Virgin trains also create huge blue flashes from the catenary when travelling in the dark and at 25kV AC they are brighter and lounder than 3rd rail DC flashes! I think in second class it’s coach C that has the lowered roof and the pantograph above the passenger compartment. Standby for fireworks!

Most probably dirt on the wheels or track. If it’s coming from behind the wheels it may be a pick-up problem.

I am off work today so decided to have another look at the Jouef BB9200. The motor problem was solved immediately as the mounting bracket for the D6100 just pinged off and there is a plastic protrusion that sits between the two lugs on the French chassis. After cleaning up all contacts on the bogie it all works perfectly. I just need to find one of my ’playworn’ D6100s with Peco couplings and swap the bogies over. /media/tinymce_upload/e152269a59b8c74fd82935f198d496a7.jpg

I just bought this off eBay as ‘untested’ as it is the only early Jouef/Playcraft loco i didn’t have. I have a couple of the later ones and even a clockwork one!. First thing I noticed was that as t had the fixed pantograph it should have had a motor bogie with an unbelievable number of gears on it and the trailing bogie just a dummy. So at some point this has had a replacement chassis. No problem as the bogies and motor are the same as the D6100 loco that was sold in the UK for which I have plenty of spares. Still, it would have been nice if it was original. Tried to power it up, nothing, no problem I have spare parts, opened it up.......NO MOTOR........ still no problem as I have a couple of spares. /media/tinymce_upload/2b518e13836a94ecf72e3970b6fa00e3.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/641b0a2253a011d86d1780b0939b2446.jpg So I get one of my spare motors, different fitting bracket!!!! /media/tinymce_upload/e6bd938e6bc191d8bda1c417f436f4d0.jpg The D6100 bracket has four holes, two of which take screws, the BB9200 has differently located pegs and no screws. The chassis is also a slightly different shape so I can’t just do a complete swap. My choice is now to re-drill the bracket or remove the pegs from the chassis and drill the plastic chassis to take two self tapping screws. I will probably choose the latter! Also, to run with my other Playcraft/Jouef stock it will need the PECO type couplings so at some point when I have time I will need to do a bogie swap with one of my spare D6100 chassis. I don’t have time today so this is a project for when I get time, nothing difficult in it. So do I feel let down by my purchase? Not really as I would have paid the little it cost me just to get the body which is in very good condition, although at the time I thought I could just drop it onto a D6100 chassis. Also, just for comparison here is the British version of the chassis alongside. /media/tinymce_upload/a6a6926e8e7ae0f17347ec7509e33ddd.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/abbc07e9bde78f22f214afeaea4bc554.jpg

It looks like one of the earlier chassis type that used the Princess cylinders and a screw down the chimney/funnel. The later version with the screw in front of the smokebox had a tube type smoke machine rather than syncrosmoke that went through the middle of the cylinder block. There may have been a later version with synchrosmoke. I think this is the only early loco that they made that you can quarter the wheels out of the chassis as there is a plastic/Bakelite base that holds the axles in place. I think the later chassis did away with this, I have a couple but have never had to dismantle them as they work fine. When set up properly I find these run really well.

Some Time so someone posted a question about couplings and this came up. Four some reason I can’t Get the search function to find it today so I thought I’d post some pics of an original tender I found at the Bolton Toy and train show yesterday. There is some damage to the tender but it will still look nice behind one of my plunger Princesses! Unfortunately it will only be for display as I don’t have any of the 6” LMS coaches with this early coupling. /media/tinymce_upload/40a49cff1289ec3a7333bb756a1e26c4.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/fbb52e4e12337bce4bc1a33abbed6ab2.jpg

Is this one 009? A lot of these 3D printed bodies are designed to take the Kato tram chassis, that hump in the cab floor is typical of this type of loco. If it’s 00 you might want to look at a Tensodo ‘spud’ or a black beetle motor bogie and add outside skirts to make a tram loco. Other than that if it is 00 you could try a Bachmann Percy or Greg. The Hornby L&Y pug would fill the cab with it’s motor. If you have bought the body it will have been designed to take a particular chassis so it might be worth looking there to see what it says.

Hopefully yo can see the difference between the axles on these photos. The standard Triang axle is on the Transcontinenatl Diesel wheel and is exactoy the same as the knurled axles used on the driving wheel of most if not all of the steam locos. You should be able to make out just how small the diameter of the trackmaster type axle is. /media/tinymce_upload/c3abdcb3cec87942324d98ff3909d592.jpg Some more pics of the mechanism; /media/tinymce_upload/b998c9555c340d1f22a8474d8051b302.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/00e96ca0cca5112debb29ff9f0e99dfd.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/85efdbb555514f386051e7119517434e.jpg The one on the left is an 060 later Tri-ang mechanism with a broken spring to compare it to, th is one has standard axles. /media/tinymce_upload/374152bafee7e35e09a3f26ded9d4270.jpg

I will try and post some pictures later. Colin

Sarah, I have tried a standard bush but it is much too big. The axles on the Trackmaster loco and the version made by Tri-ang have much thinner axles than the later standard axles. I have looked for something around the correct size and think that the only option is epoxy resin. I have two or three of these locos all with the same faults, front driving wheels coming off the axle and con rods missing or broken. The actual clockwork part works fine but I can’t transfer power to the wheels until I fix them. The motor doesn’t seem to be particularly long running though. There is also no reverse gear on this type of loco unlike the later 060 Tri-ang mechanism which was used in the 08 shunter and the saddle tank, you can reverse them but again they don’t seem to have a particularly long running time. The small and cheap 040 mechanism runs for much longer but can’t be reversed and although I have not tried it the dimensions seem to be identical to the one used by Jouef from the 1950s so there may have been some copying going on there! One day I may try to swap some bits over and see how they Work? For anyone with a rough running clockwork loco I old recommend sewing machine oil, it makes a massive difference!

There is loads of previous advice to this same question on here. Basically anything is worth what someone will pay for it on the day. If you are looking at online auction sites my advice would be to ignore the buy it now sky high prices that dealers have on there. Look what items in similar condition are actually going for, that is what people are likely to pay but you may be lucky, you may be unlucky, you have to be prepared to accept that if you go down that route. If you decide to go to a dealer, they will need to make a profit and will probably offer you around 50% of what they think it’s worth. People have a (usually) inflated idea of what items are ’worth’ because their friend/relative/bloke down the pub has seen a certain item go for a lot of money and therefore anything associated with it must also be worth a lot of money. Usually they are not.

Sarah, no R number just ‘Tank Loco’, I cleaned off the paper label by gently soaking it off. The trackmaster N2 will fit in the box. /media/tinymce_upload/fbe8f4643487951445a0e4d6d248b5e6.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/936a32c4fce0907691e1719b48c9aecf.jpg The mechanism of this one works fine but the bush on the wheel is perished, it seems to be some sort of resin/asbestos cement and I need to find a way to re-attach it properly. /media/tinymce_upload/471f51879dc9c8fee174932c565b593d.jpg