George-351466

Subsequent posting deleted as erroneous.

Many thanks for the helpful replies. Some are a little technical for me, but to simplify, I am operating via Bluetooth solely and track etc is clean and loco motor (for the J83) is the latest, I believe, brushless type, little used. But, despite my initial belief that the loco was “clean”, a common thread in responses has been about good contacts and cleanliness in general. And so I totally dismantled the loco, cleaned pick-ups and increased contact tension to the wheels. I then cleaned the wheels, particularly the rear sides where the brush pick-ups contact, after which all was reassembled with light oiling. I also added lead weight onto the inner sides of the water tanks where there’s plenty of space, before finally borrowing a power bank from another loco (please Hornby, when will these be available again?). I was determined to do all possible before another attempt at running and I confess that tension was rising as I went through the 15 or so minutes of linking and profiling before touching the dreaded speed slider. But eureka, it worked. So, thanks all for the advice. I then decided to really test the limits of these decoders by linking one to a Triang Davy Crockett - admittedly running on a new Hornsandwhistles 5 pole motor, but via the original wheels and pick-ups. Everything scrupulously cleaned and adjusted and power bank again borrowed. To my delight it also worked!!! A Davy Crockett set chuffing, tooting (Merchant Navy profile 🤣) and squeaking around the layout caused huge amusement. The final test was to run both, but minus the power banks; but we were back to stalling and disconnecting. It was an interesting, educational and happily satisfying day of experimentation, but the principal lesson is that power banks are essential. Just why this should be is unclear (to me), but I won’t lose sleep over that as I’m just delighted to have got these things working and that the HM7000 decoders are not “weak” at all. Now, please can we have more power banks, or is there an alternative stay alive?

I’m returning to an issue previously referred to in passing, but now really bugging me. What is the reason why HM7000 chips cut-out when fitted to older locos? Yesterday I made a concerted effort to get my (quite new and little used) J83 to run with a Bluetooth chip. It’s connected via a fitted plug-in socket, so no hot wiring. It runs fine in analogue (with blanking plug) and linking via iPhone is no problem. All is fine on screen and sounds are all there, but……when movement is attempted there’s an initial twitch, then the loco freezes and the link is lost shortly after. It will not re-connect to the phone unless the transformer is switched off and the app closed then re-started. I’m having the same issue with a cd converted Ringfield. Tweaking CV2 makes no difference. There are plenty of YouTube videos by people who’ve successfully converted older (and tattier) J83’s etc to dcc operation, but obviously not with HM7000 Bluetooth chips and control. I’m now considering buying a Select or Elite controller so I can connect (via a Donegal) to a “quality” decoder: an expensive route to run cheap old locos, but this is something I really want to do. If a controller is the answer, will a Select be adequate when operated via the Donegal etc? Bottom line: are the HM7000 decoders “weak” in some way?

As a modeller of some duration, the attraction of dcc was not compelling; that is until HM7000 came along. The ease and economy of free, download Bluetooth control converted me in January 2023 as soon as I read the (then) new Hornby catalogue. But…….what about my existing large layout and stock of older, but much loved locos? Converting the sectioned, cab control layout to permanently live throughout was relatively simple, producing a large pile of redundant wiring and many types of assorted switches. It took just a day of grovelling on my back and I was ready to go. Then there were the locos. The relatively modern Hornby and Bachmann dcc ready models (generally post 2015) posed few problems, although earlier Bachmans with 8 pin sockets in impossibly cramped loco body locations were another matter. I’ll come back to those. But I had (have) and treasured collection of Hornby Railways era and early (non dcc) Chinese models which I still wanted to run; but what to do? No problem, I hear you say: You Tube is full of helpful videos showing everything from early Tri-ang to later Lima, Mailine and Airfix et al, all easily adapted to take control via a dcc chip. Confident in my soldering capabilities I set forth with excited anticipation. But, here is where I’m keen to hear from others who have gone down this route; it’s been a tedious and frustrating experience - at least in so far as HM7000 decoders are concerned (I have no Select or Elite controllers to test other decoder types: I’m Bluetooth only) Some have worked well; notably Lima diesels, with CD motor replacements, once you delete the voltage droppers on 6v motors. Others not so, but why is that? To set the (hoped for) discussion in a wider context, here are a few of my “case studies” Early dcc ready Bachmanns (eg Ivatt 4MT and Standard Class 4), as referred to above, cannot fit modern sound decoders where their sockets are and their part diecast, heavily and finely detailed weighted bodies make it very challenging to wire through to tenders. Once done, however, the loco-only pick-up arrangements are very unreliable, even on well laid track. Stalling could be irritating when on analogue: in dcc it rapidly renders the locos useless. So, lesson one: a stay alive (Power Bank) has been found to be absolutely essential for these models. But when it comes to older Hornby and Triang locos, solutions have (in most cases) been elusive. Diesels seem to be more successful, but I’ve found that 2 factors are essential. 1. Power Banks are necessary to prevent stalling on points where the alternate bogie pick-ups and traction tyre arrangements inevitably lead to fatal cuts in connection. 2. Added weight - as much as possible, adds hugely to reliable, smooth running, even on level straight track. I’d given up on my Class 29 (R.080) ever running reliably until I packed as much lead as possible into it. It’s now saved my over £100 on a Dapol replacement. I assume it must be a matter of firm rail contact, where the weighty Bachmanns score well of course. As for older Hornby models (eg 0-6-0 tanks and tender drive steam locos); I’ve had no success. The depressing pattern is, replace Ringfield motor (CD in a tender drive, or Peter’s Spares in lieu of older XP types) wire to an 8 pin socket, plug in and link to the fitted HM7000 decoder after cleaning and lubricating mechanisms. Linking is always successful; connection is made, a profile downloaded and all sounds working. But, even with a power bank, when it comes to movement there will be a start for an inch or two, then it stops and connection is lost. Why does this happen? It almost feels like the decoder can’t cope, despite the new motors and trouble free analogue test performance. One can (almost) understand it on old 1970’s / 80’s / 90’s models, but why does my beautiful blue, rebuilt Merchant Navy model (R.2171); exactly the same mechanically as the dcc ready model produced a year later, behave the same way? Answers (and remedial suggestions) please, with apologies for this lengthy starter.

Many thanks one and all. Sounds will be restored tomorrow 🤞

Am I the only one who has found that the little speaker connection enclosures on the HM7000 decoders are prone to breaking off - I even had one active that was new from a retailer (swiftly replaced, thank you Cheltenham Models). Once off, they are impossible to re-fit, meaning that speaker connection is impossible via the small 2-pin plug. Probably my fault, but despite much care by me, swapping decoders from model to model (with attendant unplugging) clearly strains the socket fittings. So, can the speaker wires be soldered direct onto the decoder board and if so, would it to the two pads marked spk on the reverse side from the plug? I am competent with a soldering iron, so the job holds no fears, provided I get the right locations. Possible, or not?

Many thanks RAF. That’s great news - it hadn’t occurred to me before, but adds yet more appeal to Hornby’s brilliant HM7000 development.

I recently up-graded my iPhone to a newer model and after I had transferred all data, apps etc from the old one I discovered that my HM7000 app and all the allocated locos had not only been transferred to the new phone, but were still on the old one. Not only that, but both phones still controlled locos on the layout, even though only the new one had a SIM card! Obviously I didn’t try to control one loco with both phones simultaneously, but finding I could use two devices was an interesting and potentially very useful discovery. So my question is: how many apple devices can I use on my layout? As I have some 40+ locos I’m working my way towards linking via HM7000, being able to distribute them over 3 devices (ie two phones plus an iPad) would be very attractive. Is this possible?

I experimented with an 8 pin HM 7000 decoder in a J83 some months ago. Hot wiring the chip into the motor is straight forward, but I recommend leaving at least 1” of wiring on the plug end, so it can be reconnected for future use on a dcc model if desired. I didn’t do this and had to buy some 8 pin extensions cables with plugs when I decided to use the decoder on something else. As for the conversion itself; the decoder can be fitted under the loco body ok., but the speaker will have to go in the cab where there’s plenty of room for a small cube, plus power point (below speaker) if you don’t mind filling the cab space. That all said, I abandoned the conversion after encountering what has become an irritatingly common problem. Namely: connection is made and sounds work, but the loco stuttered for a couple of seconds and then failed. The decoder disconnected from the app and it took about 30 seconds for reconnection with the same result. I don’t know why this happens, but have experienced it on a couple of other attempts at adapting older locos - including (today) a Merchant Navy Class. Both this, and the J83 are smooth, quiet performers in dc mode, so there are no motor issues. The Merchant Navy model is just before it was issued dcc ready, so I can’t see what’s preventing success. Most frustrating. Anyway, it can be done in a J83 / Jinty et al; I’m just not doing something right, even though my cd converted Limas work fine with HM7000 decoders.

Many thanks for helpful suggestions. After a good deal of delving into the detail of cv’s and advanced settings, as per ideas given, I was still not getting satisfactory results, so I went back to read the detail of the supplier’s (Strathpefferjunction) notes and concluded that it might be the voltage droppers (diodes) which were interfering with smooth operation. On analogue the loco had worked brilliantly, but dcc operation can allow for limits on power etc via basic cv settings. Anyway, I deleted the diodes and, hey presto, perfect, smooth take off, slowing and speed control. Conclusion: if converting with an 6v cd motor on an dcc layout, don’t use reduction diodes, but limit load on the motor by cv settings, weight and speed of train, plus times of continuously running - and all should be fine. Now, suitably enthused, I’m going to attempt a Hornby tender drive conversion 🤞

Anyone any idea re power bank supplies? All retailers and Hornby direct showing out of stock. I ordered several items, incl a power bank from Cheltenham models, but they’ve just phoned me to say they aren’t expecting any before next Christmas! Seems odd, but very frustrating. What’s going on?

Converting a Lima Class 31 to HM7000 is delightfully straight forward: bags of space for a big speaker and power bank. I had previously fitted a cd motor (with voltage droppers) when running on an analogue layout and it worked very well. In converting it to HM7000 mode it still runs well and the sound is great (Hornby’s Class 31 profile). However, take off and deceleration are a little odd. On starting the loco revs up nicely, but then leaps forward like a sprinter, whilst deceleration (ie slowing down) is is very casual: unless I kill the power half way round the layout, the loco just drifts on as if the brakes are failing. It’s not a disaster, as running, pulling, basic speed setting and sound are all great, but the start off and deceleration are just irritating. Obviously the Hornby profiles and cv settings are not designed for a Lima cd converted motor. I have gingerly ventured into the cv profiles and fiddled with both the accelerating and deceleration figures (decreasing them), but to little noticeable effect. Is this an unavoidable consequence from adapting old technology, or do I need to get more adventurous with the cv’s - a world in which I’m still rather out of my depth. Thanks, as always, for any helpful suggestions. As a post script, it’s just about my first anniversary of taking the HM7000 plunge and I’d just like to add my congrats to Hornby’s development team for bringing it to the market. The Bluetooth control app is brilliant and has transformed my operating enjoyment of the hobby.

I have just acquired an Oxford Rail N7 tank loco. A delightful model which runs superbly when DC tested. I expected a bit of a challenge in fitting an HM 7000 8 pin decoder, as usual with a small tank loco. The N7 is, however, the biggest challenge yet. The socket is under the coal bunker and although the decoder fits - just; there’s no external space left for the speaker plug to fit So, is it possible to solder the speaker wires direct onto the decoder board, and if so, how is it done? The N7 body is metal, which makes the possibilities of utilising the big cab space difficult and whilst the speaker can be hidden under the rear of the boiler (hidden by the side tanks), the plug-in connection just can’t be used. The same, of course, applies to fitting the power bank which would have to go into the cab - if it was possible to feed the connections through as well as solve the plug-in problem. Fingers crossed it’ll be OK without the stay-alive, but a speaker is a must. All thoughts and suggestions gratefully received. Many thanks.

Has anyone fitted an 8 pin HM7000 decider to a CD re-motored ringfield loco? I have a very nice limited edition Lima Class 31 I’d like to try. The original Ringfield was very unreliable on my (then) analogue layout, but a Strathspeffer CD conversion, including in-line voltage limiters, transformed performance; although extended running of heavy trains can cause it to cut-out and is therefore avoided. Now, however, I’m totally HM7000 and loving it, with successful conversions to an early Bachmann Cl 55 and some other pre DCC ready locos, using soldered plug-in adaptors, which allow decoders to be easily removed. But a CD converted loco is new territory. Anyone tried it, or has related thoughts / ideas? Thanks.

Many thanks again I’ve now got a clear path towards making the modification. Great assistance from the Forum 👍🏻

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, the smoke box is solid metal, so no room there. In fact the firebox moulding in the cab is also metal which makes drilling through there a little more awkward. These two weights make the loco nice and heavy though. Relocating the socket into the tender sounds like a good option and I’ll look again at that, but which way do I plug the decoder into it?

My Bachmann K3 is a first generation DCC ready Bachmann model (32-275) with an 8 pin socket in the loco body. But space there is practically non existent and I’m going to have to extent the chip harness and fit the decoder, speaker and power bank in the tender. That will require some drilling and carefully routing of cables, but two questions arise: I’m assuming I only need the 4 strands on the harness which deal with the pick-ups and can cut off the remainder, so as to minimise the bundle of wires between loco and tender. Correct?The DCC socket in the loco has no indication that I can see, as to which way round the decoder plug should be attached: ie, no little 1 marked on the board. Does it matter which way round it goes (I’m assuming it does); is trial and error a valid method, or will I damage the chip by testing it wrongly? So far, my later Bachmann locos have taken to their Hornby Bluetooth decoders perfectly, but they’ve been 22 pin versions in tenders - actually easier fits than to some Hornby locos. However, K3 is obviously earlier, but a loco that I dearly want to add to my stock of HM7000 runners. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Re Ighten’s Q of fitting an Oxford Rail J27. As posted elsewhere, I have fitted the HM7000 22 pin decoder, plus power bank to mine and all works well. That said, it’s very tight in the tender: the decoder fits fine (it’s the same size as most other types) and the speaker fits under the tender weight in a recess made for a sugar cube type. NB, don’t use one of the Hornby supplied speaker boxes - the “box” in the tender takes the speaker. Volume needs to be turned up a little as it’s a bit muffled under everything else - but not too much as Hornby’s speakers are vulnerable (see other threads). The challenge is in getting the power bank in as well. After a good deal of measuring, experimentation and head scratching, I concluded that the dummy coal load would have to be cut out. Obviously a bit scary and you may be OK without it, but I’ve found reliable operation benefits greatly from power bank fitting on all my locos. The coal load in OR’s J27 is minimal and sits low inside a narrow recess (a pity, as that’s what denies space inside the tender). But carefully cutting the coal out enables the power bank to be squeezed into the opened recess. It’s then a simple matter of making a cover to go over with coal stuck on it: using real stuff adds to the grimy appearance that was a J27’s habitual style! I love my long, slow moving freight trains and the J27 is great chugging, squealing and clanking around my layout via HM7000 with a long rake of mixed coal wagons.

Eight running well. Like others, early problems were more down to me than the decoders - it’s too tempting to dive in rather than wade through the manuals. But Bachmann 21 pin locos are an easier fit than Hornby 8 pins, although the Oxford Rail J27 was a challenge in getting the power bank fitted. The app works really well and the more you use it and become familiar with its format, layout the better it gets. Only recent problems have been with duff speakers (see separate Forum thread). Not a big issue and I’ve bought a load of others for peanuts which will probably be better quality, although Hornby would be well advised to sort it. I’d challenge any analogue user to return to DC operation, once they’ve played with HM7000. All I need to crack now is getting older (non DCC ready) locos to work with it.

Same experiences with duff speakers. Out of 8 decoders fitted, 3 speakers have been faulty. Not good for Hornby or the reputation of this system. I test ran all locos to ascertain those faulty, then replaced speakers with others which worked ok. That confirmed it was not the decoders - which I’d initially suspected. The reason I doubted the decoders was that the sounds worked fine for about one to two minutes, before gradually distorting, then slowly fading until silent. After an hour or two the pattern was repeated, which threw me a bit. Eventually one failed completely and I’d guess that the others would eventually go as well, but like Brew Man, I’ve ordered new ones from elsewhere, whilst notifying Hornby. Hopefully quality will be better. Other than that, admittedly irritating glitch, I’m loving the HM7000 operational simplicity of the Bluetooth app and the life-like behaviour of the locos: so different from my former analogue control.

Fitted so far (with comments) R.3736 H Dublo Flying Scotsman, with relevant profile, plus power bank, small speaker enclosure. Tender internals needed adapting for all to fit - a common issue with OO gauge steam locosR.3447 Keverston Hall, with B12 profile, plus power bank, small speaker enclosure. Tender required adapting as above.R.3062 Hunt Class 4-4-0 (Railroad), with 2p profile, plus power bank, medium size speaker enclosure. Open tender moulding gives lots of internal space - a nice easy fit.R.3424 Class Q6 0-8-0. 9f profile, plus power bank, small speaker enclosure. Tender adaptations needed.Bachmann D11/2 4-4-0 Luckie Mucklebackit. 2p profile. 21 pin decoder an easy fit, with good tender space for power bank and speaker enclosure. This was a surprisingly straight forward adaptation.Oxford Rail J27 0-6-0, 4f profile. 21 pin decoder fits fine. Speaker space below tender weight takes sugar crude speaker, but sound box is small and weight plus decoder above muffles sound somewhat. Power bank fitting needed reluctant cutting out of (fixed) moulded coal and replacement by power bank on top: has to be hidden by “new” coal above. This was the most awkward adaptation by far to date. All in all I’m very satisfied with results and, as a convert from DC operation, the transformation is revolutionary and much more engaging. Further conversions will include Bachmann Atlantic, two Hornby A4’s, a J15, Bachmann Robinson O4 and J11. However, those using 18 pin decoders will have to wait for the second gen smaller chips from Hornby. Frustrations have, however, been in relation to attempts (so far unsuccessful) to convert non DCC ready locos: ie Hornby N2 and J83 tank locos. Both can be hot wired with power bank and small speaker enclosures, if you’re happy to fill cab space. But, so far, they simply haven’t worked. Sounds are fine, but movement stalls after a few seconds, followed by loss of connection. I’ll keep trying, having boosted I-pad signal strength to the loft, but any thoughts or suggestions re retro-fitting older locos would be welcomed. Thanks.

I am trying to fit an 8 pin Bluetooth decoder into a Hornby N2. It’s a tight fit, but the smallest speaker sits in the cab, with the decoder pushed into the boiler housing - obviously “hot wired”. An old You tube video shows it being done, pre HM7000. But there’s a problem. The device links to my iPad and a steam profile is loaded. All seems fit to go; sounds are generated and the loco starts to move, but after 3 or 4 seconds - nothing. The connection to the loco is lost and nothing brings it back. I’ve tried two decoders with the same result (although haven’t checked them in other DCC ready locos to see if they’re damaged) Any thoughts or suggestions please?

Many thanks for replies. It’s helped clear up uncertainty. In fact, I’ve just seen Jenny Kirk’s latest video on fitting the 22 pin Bluetooth decoders and it seems I was wrong to be concerned about my non Hornby locos with 21 pin sockets which is great news. That just leaves the 18 pin chips which won’t fit my Heljan NER Rail bus, or the Sonic 4-6-2 tank. Fingers crossed for a second gen Hornby 18 pin decoder which will fit.

George W shows how Bluetooth control of HM7000 and non Bluetooth chipped locos is obtained via a Hornby Elite controller. As I can’t fit the current Bluetooth chips to most of my Bachmann Heljan etc locos, I’d like to use my NCE controller to give me Bluetooth control of all locos. Has anyone done this? Any problems, or anticipated no no’s?

I’ve read this discussion with interest as I am having “disappointments” with 8 pin HM7000 decoders. I agree that our YouTube carpet influencer irritates with his simplistic approach to all things Hornby in particular. He seems to think that todays models should still be priced at 2000’s levels. Get real S**, things have moved on in all respects. But, back to the issue. I have converted to HM7000 and love the variety, flexibility and operating range of the app. Decoder size is an issue though. It’s not coincidental that OO demos’ (including Hornby’s own) invariably show a diesel as the selected loco. My layout is Era 3 (1920’s / 30’s) LNER and fitting the Bluetooth decoders to most of the period steam locos requires cutting away tender internals, especially if the power bank is to be added. Even then, it’s awkward to get all inside. I’ve suggested to Mr Kohler that the tender moulds be re-examined as it should be simple (ie cheap) to adapt the tooling so that these chips fit. The biggest disappointment, however, has been with decoder durability. After 3 weeks of use, 2 of the five decoders I’ve fitted have failed (let’s not say burnt out). They just stopped working. Although bought through Hattons, I’m returning them to Hornby as I know they are keen to get this system as reliable as possible. We know there have been big delays in the supply chain, but I just wonder if the pressure to get these out into the market place has resulted in quality control (as well as size) problems. Further conversions are therefore on hold, pending Hornby’s response.