What About The Bee
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Posts posted by What About The Bee
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https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360014266619-UK-ROW-Delivery-Costs
Free shipping to UK addresses when over £50
Bee
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11 minutes ago, Going Spare said:
...although the set is marketed as 1:76, only the vehicles are to that scale...
That is deceptive marketing if true. Shame on them.
Bee
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Hi Deem
I cannot tell you if those are the correct parts, but I can tell you the geometry.
If the OD of the wheel is 14.5 mm, then a 15 mm ID rubber tire will not grip the wheel. The wheel will turn inside the tire.
If the ID of the rubber tire is 14 mm, then it must modestly stretch¹ by pi/2 mm (1.57 mm) to fit over the wheel, gripping it well
That's reasonable.
Bee
¹circumference = pi × D. 14.5 × pi = 45.55 mm. 14 mm × pi = 43.98 mm. Delta = 1.57 = pi/2
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"close enough"
I had a thought of joining a model railway club. It was reasonably close by. They were having an open house for the kiddies at Xmas, and I thought it a marvelous opportunity to examine the layout without any peer pressure from membership.
The right of way was very good indeed. Lots and lots of rail.
And then I saw the ancillary parts of the layout. Buildings, cars, people, etc. The environment that surrounds the railway. Heavens above, they took the principle of "close enough" to include a very broad range indeed. Cars far too narrow for the roadway. People too tall to fit under doorways. A total mish mash of accessories in a wide variety of scales. Totally spoiled the illusion. Disastrous.
I did not join the club. No thank you.
I do understand that for some folks, close enough is good enough. No issue there. Your railway, your rules. I respect that.
Have a look at "Oxford Diecast 1:76 Military 76SET58". It includes a OO Spitfire. It will be up to you to decide if it is worth the price.
Bee
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18 minutes ago, ColinB said:
I don't think the new forum is the issue.
That's a refreshing comment Colin. You are quite the valuable resource and it was disconcerting to read some earlier remarks.
I'm happy to see you coming around.
Bee
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Hi @65mike
Oval it is then!
There are two ways to know if this will work. Analytically and Emperically.
1) Analytically, by Equation
In part 3 of this Hornby Post, I show the equations that I use. In those equations, I develop the side to side play required. In your case, you know the side to side play (measure it), and can then see if the track radius is too tight. Be aware that this will be highly dependent upon your ability to measure your locomotives and rolling stock accurately.
If you want to take this approach, I can invert the equations for you.
2) Emperically, by Experiment.
You have the board. Purchase a bit of flex track and set it on the board, to include a straight. Does the locomotive go around the curve?
There are a few things to look for.
2a) Climbing the rail. If the track curve is too tight, the locomotive may try to climb the rail, as the wheels simply will not fit. This leads directly to derailment, which will be obvious. This is non-correctable, a hard limit. Relax the track radius until this does not occur.
2b) Buffer Lock. Okay, the locomotive manages the curve, but can it haul carriages and waggons? As the curve gets too tight, the buffers will come into contact. This can force rolling stock off the track, as a triangle is formed. It can also set one buffer behind (!) another, which pulls the rolling stock off the track when straightening out. One solution here is to remove the buffers, shrinking the minimum curve.
2c) Premature wear. Your stock should have brass bearing surfaces. Sure, the kit goes 'round the curve, but at what cost? Metal axles and tires are going to play havoc against plastic parts. Brass bearing surfaces will last far longer than plastic.
There is a reason manufacturers, like Hornby, specify the minimum curve radius. The design work accommodates all of these points. They calculate the side to side play. They consider climb. They examine buffers and they consider wear.
Yes! You can go smaller. Be careful.
Bee
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Hi Mike 👋
I really must mind my manners! Hello and Welcome Aboard.
We seem to have a disconnect. You use the word "curves" and I am using the word "oval".
Do you want a complete circuit, to go 'round and 'round? That, to me, is an oval.
Do you want to go back and forth, to include curved pieces of track? If so, then whatever fits will be fine.
Bee
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At 2 feet wide?
2 feet × 12 inches/foot × 25.4 mm / inch = 609.6 mm
First Radius curves are 371 mm
No oval is possible in OO.
Perhaps in a smaller scale....
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There is another thing in play:
Focus
@Generic Hornby Username, in the TT sub-forum, indicated that there 66 models of locomotives and rolling stock that Hornby has released. Total, in TT. That means a common experience for them, as they either have those models, or nothing.
How many models in OO? Over all the decades? The focus is not on a group of tens of models, rather, it extends into the thousands.
So when I get all excited and discuss an obscure LMR 2nd class carriage, the modern image modelers are perhaps not so excited. That simply does not exist in TT120 right now.
By the way, this isn't a competition. It is absolutely not an Us v Them situation. Seriously, what is so different? TT120 uses a different ratio. And?
Bee
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So in addition to using your points, you get to spend an additional £20?
Tempting!
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2 hours ago, Rallymatt said:
... that’s nothing to do with TT:120 but OO modellers not being active and creative on the forum. Only OO modellers can influence the OO scene...
I'll say it again, I do not begrudge TT120 their fun. In simple fact, I really appreciate it. I think its a vibrant subsection with plenty of excited enthusiasts. Crack on Rallymatt & TT120 friends! Never stop!
In comparison, OO does not seem as active. That isn't a surprise to me. Lots of newly minted TT enthusiasts, sharing their joy. Not as many newly minted OO enthusiasts.
And to @Rallymatt's point, if you want to see more OO, then contribute more. There is no need to lurk. I notice plenty of names at the top of the page, with Hornby saying that they are "also here". Yet they do not start a new conversation. They do not respond to others. Perhaps they are shy. Perhaps they are afraid of saying the wrong thing, thinking they will be judged. No sir (or madam)! No need to hide in the shadows, the vast majority here do not bite. Pretty evenly tempered too. Judgement free¹ zone.
I would like to see what you are working on. Your layout, your models. That's what the TT group is on about. Sharing.
Bee
¹certain exclusions apply😉
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How did I get good at anything? By making all the mistakes possible beforehand.
No one is born being a top end steam fitter. No one has an innate sense of carpentry. You do not enter kindergarten with 3 dimensional calculus in your arsenal of knowledge.
Yes, you will occasionally make a total bodge of it. My most recent bodge was not getting the seating unit properly toleranced in my design. It simply would not fit. Endless hours of fettling later, not only does it fit, but I now know the Hornby dimension. Lesson learned!
You can't solder? Buy a roll of wire and solder 100 pieces to a piece of scrap copper pipe. See what works.
I am with @ntpntpntpon this. Develop the skill. Learn how.
You Can Do It!
Bee
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I'm not in TT120, but absolutely do not begrudge you lads your fun.
The simple fact is that certain youTube reviewers are fountains of negativity. This negativity attracts attention and views, which is what they want, as this generates income for them. The negativity encourages others to be negative, in comments and in forums.
Here is my solution for those negative Nancy youTube reviewers¹. Unsubscribe. Ignore. Tune out. They can post their negativity all they like. It is irrelevant to me.
When encountering a negative comment, either ignore it or challenge the basis. Most negative Nancy's cannot take it when you go negative on THEM. Example, they say "Hornby is too expensive". Response: "It is a pity you cannot afford the hobby. Maybe you should consider something within your budget, something you can afford"
Just crack on having fun. Soon enough, their voices fade into obscurity.
Bee
¹there was going to be a footnote identifying a name, but in the end, you can fill in the name of the reviewer you think negative
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That's good thinking 96RAF. Using formerly xyz as part of the new title would absolutely resolve the situation.
Bee
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Oh yes, I did see that. But that is within the post itself. The newbie has already found the renamed post.
Here is what I meant:
1) Correspondent titles the post "XYZ" in Forum Feedback.
2) Moderator changes the title to "ABC" and places it into "General Discussion" Can the correspondent find it?
3) When looking at the list of posts in Forum Feedback, we can see the new title "ABC" and there is a note that the post was formerly "XYZ". In other words, both titles appear.
4) Thus, when the correspondent comes back to find "XYZ", not only can the correspondent see that, but also "ABC", before opening the post to read it.
÷÷÷
Little Tommie titles his post "I have a problem." and places it into "Live Steam". It is a basic problem, how to wire a DC controller to the track. Moderation renames it "DC Controller Wiring Issue" and moves it to "General Discussion". Little Tommie comes back. His post isn't in Live Steam, and he cannot find "I have a problem". Something was moved out of "Live Steam" but it is named "DC...". Hmmmm. Will Little Tommie find it? Do not assume he can find it, the lad cannot figure out how two wires attach between the controller and the two rails.
What would have been helpful was the name he assigned the post, in the section where he left it.
But its been moved. Good thing we now have a sign post! Happy with that new feature.
But no external reference that the name of the post was changed from/to. Sadly, Little Tommie cannot see anything like that.
Surely, he could sequentially examine each and every post, across forum section after forum section. If he happens to find the post and open it, he can see the name change, internal to the post. Kind of useless at that point.
Alternatively, he gives up, the post is too hard to find. "Those guys don't care about my trains. I quit."
I would like to emphasize that this is not a complaint or a dig at moderators. Nothing is wrong with the way we have it. I was just hopeful that the new feature would also be helpful in the same way for a post rename.
Bee
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I did not see any informative message for the rename of this thread.
Bee
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I found this new feature of the forum to be excellent
I have always been concerned when a post is moved by moderation. Will the "newbie" be able to find it? Given the recent flurry of changes, will I be able to find it 😁
I wonder if a similar informative message will be applied when moderation renames a post. A post in particular by a "newbie". Perhaps the message is time limited, say 5 days, such that a newbie can find the post and get comfortable with the new and more appropriate name. No need to keep that informative message forever!
Bee
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Hi @mytrainz
If you do decide to rewind them yourself, there is very little downside. The motor is no longer functional without rewinding. It isn't like you are destroying a working motor. So whilst you can indeed make a bodge of your first few, understand that you can almost always try again!
The laminations are unlikely to be damaged. The permanent rate earth magnets are unlikely to be damaged. It really comes down to how badly you mangle the case and bearing surfaces.
So try, try again. Until you get it right. A spool of enameled wire will be hundreds if not thousands of turns. Plenty of chances to get it right!
Crack on Mate!
Bee
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Hi @mytrainz
I was hopeful that you would be provided with the name of a service that rewound motors for model trains.
That appears unlikely by now.
There are plenty of motor rewinding services in the UK.
https://www.google.com/search?q=services+motor+rewinding+uk
The sticky bit will be the price. This will not be inexpensive. The services are generally provided for industrial motors.
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The thing is this. Why not do it yourself. It is simply enameled wire, with a specific number of turns for every pole. Under the assumption that your old motors are three pole, you will need 3 bundles. Arrange on the rotor in the same polarity. Solder to commutator. Pot. Voila.
Of course, you are very unlikely to get the same wire density that a machine will. So your developed magnetic field strength is not going to match the original. Start with new enameled wire of the same cross sectional area as the old. Triang would not have gone with square cross sectional wire to get better density, because of cost. Therefore simple round enameled wire will do.
You need a mold to wrap the wire around, such that the bundle can slide off and placed onto the pole of the rotor. Keep making trial bundles. Your aim is to get the highest number of turns in the bundle that still allows rotor rotation within the stator. Why? Higher number of turns = greater magnetic field.
Once you know, make three more and use those. This ensures three pristine bundles. Your test bundle(s) should be discarded, as you may have damaged the enamel.
Install and solder to commutator.
Test resistance, phase to phase. The resistance values should be a very close match. If not, you likely nicked the enamel.
Pot the motor by painting some more enamel on the installed bundles, fixing the bundles in place.
This is only the broad brush outline. Plenty of details and videos on the internet to help you along.
Bee
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Modified packaging to accommodate the canopy
It may not be as pretty as the manufactured cuts, but it is entirely serviceable.
One question. What is the material specification used to guard the model from the foam? The thin silky pastic film.
Bee
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As a curiosity, here are some early Stockton & Darlington Railway rail profiles.
I have yet to find a profile of the rail in use in 1825. Drat!
Bee
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Hi LT&SR_NSE
A goodly portion of the LMR was originally laid in sleepers, Chat Moss in particular. Understandably, burying a sleeper subsurface was asking for rot to occur.
One answer was wood preservation. An 1832 wood preservation patent by John Howard Kyan became known as Kyanized Wood. The LMR did apply for a license from Kyan, and used it in sleeper production by 1837.
The entire rail support issue was a problem. The fundamental competition to wooden sleepers was stone blocks. Stone blocks provided a stiffer ride, so much so that broken blocks were common. In 1836, it was reported that a single 100 yard stretch of track by the Edge Hill Engine Works had 200 broken stone blocks! All of which needed replacing.
To the stone block vs wooden sleeper conundrum, add in the fishbelly vs parallel rail issue. Which was better? That actually wasn't a clear cut answer in the period.
The cherry on top being that all of the rails were entirely too light. The S&DR opened with 28 lb per yard rail. The LMR opened 5 years later with 35 lb per yard rail, a 25% increase. By the end of the 1830s, 70 lb per yard rail was already in use, a 250% increase.
You are correct in my view. As heavier parallel rail with heavier fixings, with improved wood preservation and drainage came into being, heavier locomotives pulled heavier loads. The horse was banished. No need to worry how the horse would do.
Bee
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Hi Fred
No worries about answering your questions. It's always better to ask and find out the answer.
1 hour ago, Aussie Fred said:wouldn't the horse have trouble stepping over/through the sleepers?
The only part of the rail system that was exposed was the top of the rails, with just enough clearance for the flanges. The remainder of the system was buried under hard packed earth. This means, unlike a modern system, the top surface between the rails was a dirt path!
This even more so with stone sleeper blocks. The rectangular stones (24" wide × 24" long × 12" thick) were sub-grade. There was no tie between the rails.
Horses would have an issue with modern rail.
1 hour ago, Aussie Fred said:, one wonders why they bother when a horse drawn carriage on Road would be more practical
In a word, rolling efficiency. The same answer in 1825, 1925 and next year, 2025. Pulling something on rail is much more efficient that pulling that same thing on a road.
So either increase the load or decrease the energy required. A horse could easily pull Experiment or Defiance on rail, fully loaded. Much greater capacity than the road stage coach.
Period roads were not smooth asphalt or macaddam. They were cobblestones in the city, dirt roads in the country.
Period newspapers reported that as soon as a railway was established, the road stagecoaches went out of business.
Bee
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1/76 scale
in General Discussion
Posted
@SteveM6
I will not judge a person for what they want. Robert wanted a 1:76 OO Spitfire. It is not my place to say that is right or wrong. The heart wants what the heart wants. Who am I to judge his desire?
When the item advertised as 1:76 was assessed to really be 1:72, I denoted that vendor underhanded. Which I carefully conditioned with "if true". I stand by that remark. What Robert wants is a long standing desire, showing up in thread after thread across the internet. If a vendor takes advantage of that and supplies goods not to spec, then they deserve the negativity that comes with it.
I do not care one way or the other about the Spitfire. The only aviation that can appear on an LMR focused layout is a Montgolfier Brothers ballon! I was simply trying to help an enthusiast out. I failed.
Now as to that layout I saw? You will note that I did not name that layout or club. It was laughably bad though. If that makes them happy, then good on them. Its what they want. I simply found it disconcerting and jarring. So I passed. Does that make me a rivet counter? Maybe. Part of the hobby for me is exploring the details of the past and yes, getting it right counts. I prefer to be accurate.
Plenty of other posts here by individuals who are fussed over the details. Like which coaches go with what locomotives. Like the exact color of this carriage or that waggon. Does a 21T mineral waggon require a brake van (recent TT question)? Are they rivet counters too?
You are better than that Steve.
Bee