What About The Bee

June 29

Hi 81F

I did check to see if Rocket had the cylinders illustrated in this thread. Rocket was Robert Stephenson and Co Ltd 's locomotive #19, with Twin Sisters at #13. So relatively close in sequence. Rocket did not use these cylinders.

It is very likely that there was commonality among Arrow LMR2, Wildfire LMR3, Dart LMR4, Comet LMR5, Phoenix LMR6 and North Star LMR8. These were ordered by the board as a group, after the success of Rocket at the Rainhill Trials

Note: these are different artists, but the images do show commonality betwixt engines. The first is Phoenix, the second is North Star.

Perhaps the tender is a clue about the time the image of Twin Sisters was created. During the construction of the LMR's right of way, Twin Sisters was kept very busy. She was a star. Her boiler, it is noted, was filled / refreshed with already boiling water so there was no waiting to raise steam. Therefore, not much need for a tender. After Opening Day, as more powerful and quicker locomotives came on line, Twin Sisters was relegated to luggage (freight) service, and due to her slow speed, only at night. In the image, Twin Sisters is on a siding. Its daytime. And she has a tender. I think, therefore, that the image was created after Opening Day, Sept 1830 and before she was scrapped in Dec 1831

Yet barrel tenders were a Stephenson practice. In the early 1820s, George produced locomotives for the Hetton Colliery. Tredgold, 1825, presents us with an image of one of them

Tredgold specifically uses the word "tender" for the carriage behind the locomotive which carries "water for supplying the boiler, and coals...for the fire".

Hedley's Puffing Billy of 1813 also had a barrel tender. Seen here in the 8 coupled drive wheel version.

I give a quick pictorial reference of tender development here. There are three phases.
https://community.hornbyhobbies.com/forums/topic/31950-bee-what-do-you-think-about-rockets-tender-being-used-for-tigers-wagons/?do=findComment&comment=340276

Bee

June 27

Hi JJ

You can get better results

You can also learn more about your meter

Only do it if you want to

Bee

June 27

43 minutes ago, Deem said:

I am hoping I am not breaking any law but is this the picture you mentioned?

Yes Deem. It is copyrighted as you can see in the upper righthand corner. I would have just posted the image myself, but was concerned about a copyright violation. So I just posted the link to it.

Bee

June 27

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1506c.htm

11th image down. Image of snifting valve behind chimney on real article

Bee

June 27

Deem, the best way to ask a moderator a question is to "report" your own post.

Tap the three dots.

Select "report"

Type your direct message to the moderators.

🙂

Bee

June 27

Hi JJ,

This is the next step. Here is what Alex was asking.

He wanted to know what your controller does in the little blue circle, when the VDC is small.

Your testing shows when motion starts. Notice your numbers are all above 1.5 VDC? The locomotive starts moving when the VDC is high enough.

But the video also shows the lowest VDC your controller can make. It is around 0.3 VDC. The reading does not go 0.0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5 on the meter. It goes 0.0, 0.3, without showing 0.1 or 0.2. This is the dead zone.

You should do the test again. Set your vertical slide bar to 5 instead of 20. This means no more than 5 VDC. NEVER GO ABOVE 5 VDC.

Slowly, really slowly turn up the controller. What is the smallest VDC you can get? Stop before you reach 5 VDC or you can ruin your meter!!

Bee

June 27

I will wave 👋 to it, as it goes by, Fred.

Who doesn't love a world tour!?

Bee

June 27

You got it JJ!

June 27

In your video, you said that you were not sure what the numbers VDC meant.

I made this diagram up to help you to see the meaning. Study it and see if it helps

Bee

June 26

Nice work Deem!

Bee

June 26

I've often wondered if pre-orders are fulfilled in the order taken by Hornby.

I placed my order for R40438 nearly immediately upon announcement. I believe the proper word would be 'pounced'.

So if I had a lower order number than LT&SR_NSE, would my order be filled first?

Bee

June 26

Shipper takes possession in Paddock Wood, UK

Package took a side trip to Koeln, Germany

Arrived in USA, delivered to my home.

Total time of journey? 17 hours, 21 minutes, ignoring the 5 hour time difference. Add that in, still a respectable 22 hours 21 minutes

Bee

June 26

This update will focus on one particular component, the steam cylinder for Twin Sisters. It is a prominent feature, and the driving mechanism of any steam locomotive.

1828 was a good year for Robert Stephenson and Co Ltd. Robert had returned from South America and there was new demand from the LMR.

There was an order for their 11th locomotive, the Lancashire Witch. The locomotive was delivered in June of 1828, to the LMR, who turned it over to the Bolton and Leigh. There exists a color image of Lancashire Witch, dated 1828. You may observe the image on page 3 of this download, Friends of the Stockton and Darlington Railway

https://www.sdr1825.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Pride-of-Newcastle-R-State.pdf

The 1828 illustration has been reduced to a line drawing, reproduced everywhere. The cylinder has a distinct design.

Locomotive #12 was delivered to the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company, in the USA, in October of 1828. It was called "Pride of Newcastle" by the company, renamed "America" by the D&HC, although there is some dispute regards the name.

This image appears in the Engineer and Railroad Journal, Vol LXVII, No 1, dated 1893. The safety valve housing on the back of the boiler is a clear anachronism. The nameplate is a fanciful addition. While I cannot vouch for the authoritative nature of a non-period drawing, the steam cylinder is definite, as you will soon see.

Lastly, we have the Twin Sisters, Robert Stephenson and Co Ltd # 13 Started 1 December, per a letter by Robert Stephenson. Delivered in July of 1829, per the LMR Board of Directors. 8 months, start to finish. The drawing of the steam cylinder is by Robert Stephenson and Co, so I think we can trust this.

So what of the steam cylinders?

These three cylinders for the three sequential locomotives are compared in one image. I think you will agree that they look to be the same cylinder. Two bands divide the length into 3 parts. There is a stepped down diameter around the piston rod and packing. There is a protruding plate on the back.

The casting for this cylinder would be quite complicated, with internal steam injection ports and exhaust ports. Expensive to design, expensive to make. We are looking at a relatively small time frame of sequential locomotives. It makes sense that the cylinder would be the same for all three locomotives.

But here is the absolute cherry. In Warren's book, there is a picture of an artifact held by the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC.

This is the cylinder from Pride of Newcastle / America. This is the actual part, not a replica. Notice how this compares to the drawings. I would call it a match.

There are details in that image not present in the drawings.

Example: the slide valve internal to the steam chest.

Example: the nut to press the packing around the piston rod.

Example: how the piston mounts to the plate. Those flanges are simply not shown in the Stephenson drawings, yet the mounting arrangement is used generally for a long series of locomotives, to include Rocket (Robert Stephenson and Co Ltd #19) and the Rocket-Class locomotives on the LMR, all the way to Northumbrian LMR7.

The critical detail offered by the photograph is the location of steam admission port to the steam chest. This permits the path of the plumbing from the vertical reservoir to the steam chest to be logically construed. Look again at the Lancashire Witch line drawing to see the steam piped to the steam chest.

Shaw

Shaw may not have captured every detail. It's a sketch, not a photograph. Twin Sisters wasn't even the focus of the image. Yet the sketch appears to show a pipe leading from the vertical reservoir to the steam chest. This could be a leg for a support bracket for the crosshead guide bars, but where are the other three legs? The steam admission port is just behind the flange, moreover, the pipe would be mounted to the plate. It would be mostly hidden, given the perspective of the drawing.

With such exquisite detail available, it is installed in CAD for OO Twin Sisters. Perhaps not in every feature, it is tiny after all. I will eventually touch it up to more closely resemble the real thing.

Bee

June 26

@Official Hornby Hobbies

Thank you for making these forums a better place. Your recent decision to relax the rules around YouTube creators will bring more enthusiasts in, happy to participate within the community.

Well Done!

Bee

June 25

Going Spare

There are entirely too many variables to determine why the voltage on one is higher that the others.

Friction and Stiction in motor/mechanism

Cogging of motor

Cleanliness of track / wheels / commutator / brushes

As JJ points out, different motor = different characteristics, like nominal resistance

What JJ's questioner wanted was the base voltage of the controller, with a locomotive on track, slow speed. That fellow is looking for the best controller to get slow speed and thinks this is the way to find it.

Bee

June 25

Extending the fleet.

Accessories are two finescale couplings. No "instructions". Ice cube packaging in white cardboard sleeve (right).

Bee

June 25

Good job JJ. I knew you could do it.

Bee

June 25

JJ

What is the lowest VDC you get, with the locomotive still moving?

That is what your question on youTube is

Bee

June 25

@Aussie FredApparently, I am misunderstood.

It was not my intention to say "we cannot have [Lendon's .... etc]"

Rather, it was my intention to promote the idea that the rule is a bit strict. The fig leaf of another correspondent informing us about [Peachy, That Model Railroad Guy, 81F.....etc] is just that, a fig leaf. It works around the rule, mooting it. The rule is honored in the breach.

Why would I not want to see what other correspondents have to say. They have produced videos including competitors products. If not mistaken Fred, even you have shown us some interesting stuff. Are the products in your videos exclusively Hornby? If that isn't showcasing a competitor's product, I don't know what is. Product placement, like a can of Coca Cola in a movie. Again, this isn't a knock on you, its three hearty cheers. Crack on Fred.

I do understand shamelessly promoting a product. I would not want to see Accurascale on these boards, like they are on other message boards, flogging their product. Bachmann? No. Cav-Alex? No.

But if Jenny wanted to have an account here, why not? The ability to have a conversation with a youTube creator, here, seems quite reasonable. Even if it is their production account. Just as now, speaking with you.

Bee

June 25

About the negative / positive.

This is polarity. Forward / reverse!

This is just a fine point. Right now, we only care how big the number is, not the sign

Bee

June 25

The top photo shows 15.88 Volts, direct current (VDC).

The bottom photo shows 14.84 VDC.

Well done JJ.

Now, do you have a locomotive on the track? Slow it right down JJ, then see the reading. It may be as low as 2 VDC.

The voltage is related to speed. The higher the voltage, the higher the speed. The lower the voltage, the lower the speed.

You are getting there!

Bee

June 24

Point accepted without rancor @LTSR_NSE

I recognize the distinction, of course. I am suggesting that the "rule" is so narrow and so readily avoided, that it is functionally useless.

The movie "Miracle on 34th Street" shows the benefit of recommending a competing product. Instead of losing that one individual sale, the good will generated by the recommendation comes back 10 fold.

Bee

June 24

https://community.hornbyhobbies.com/forums/topic/36000-smaller-power-bank/?do=findComment&comment=387374

Jenny Kirk's videos are commercially sponsored. Obviously so. Clearly so. It is so stated within the video. Additionally, Jenny does product placement. This video is one, a tiny keep alive. Obviously so. Clearly so. She also has merch, which is shamelessly promoted within the video. Obviously so. Clearly so. So any reference to a Jenny video contains commercial content.

If @That Model Railway Guyviolated terms of service by referencing his video, than so does any reference to Jennifer Kirk. Full stop.

÷÷÷÷÷

Its always to be a judgement call. If the moderators think it self promotion, it will be removed. If they do not think so, it stays.

Its tough being a moderator. A decision has to be made. Nobody is perfect. Sometimes there are mistakes. You usually cannot get 100% agreement in marginal cases. It's easy when the post advertises language classes. Removed. Its easy when JJ asks about a voltmeter. It stays. Gray zone cases are not so easy. Do the moderators delete my post when it references SOT's motorized level crossing gates, which he has clearly stated will be a commercial product? I should hope not. I want one.

Judgement call.

Bee

June 24

A brief update.

Firstly, the author of the 1923 book is J.G.H.Warren, not Marshall. When searching for the book, I used the full title and "Marshall" as the author. Google found the book, and I never noticed I had the wrong author. Whoops!

I've installed the scale 4 foot (16mm) wheels and adjusted the valve gear to match. Various ratios were used to fine tune the model

After a great deal of thought and examination of the Robert Stephenson and Co Ltd drawing, I think I have a solution to the reservoir system.

In my drawing, it is clear to see that steam rises from the two main boilers and goes into the dark blue horizontal reservoir, via the pink pipe. Its behind the chimney in the Stephenson dwg.

Yet in the Stephenson dwg, there are two vertical risers, internal to the horizontal reservoir.

Ah ha! Steam may condense back into water. If it does, it flows back down the pink pipe and into the main boilers. It cannot flow up into the risers, water flows down, not up. Steam does flow up into the vertical riser and down into the light blue vertical reservoirs, my drawing. From there to the piston steam chests, not shown.

There is likely a blow down valve at the base of each vertical reservoir. There will always be a little condensation. Not terrifically relevant for the model, but helps to understand how Twin Sisters really worked.

Bee

June 24

27 minutes ago, That Model Railway Guy said:

That's not me flouncing off in a huff

Don't go off in a huff. Go in a minute and a huff - Groucho Marx

Actually, please don't. I do think this issue will be sorted in a reasonable manner.

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