Mystery Loco

[walkingthedog]

Sorry my link above 81F's doesn't appear to work. 

[LCDR]

 The Southern was the other big user of Pull & Push trains. As well a purposely converted two coach sets (which included the Maunsell conversions now made by Hornby) there were spare coaches with through control pipes and even a few PLVs (Passenger Luggage Vans), so they could be marshalled between the loco and coaches if needed. .

Two coach trains were the norm but three or four coach sets did appear from time to time.  There was one SO working from Gravesend Central which conveyed two 2 coach pull & push sets as far Sharnal Street, where one set was detached. The loco and first two continued to Allhallows in Sea and another loco off a goods duty turned up to couple to the other set and then worked the train to Grain.

[81F]

 Just noticed that your loco seems to have had it's original couplings replaced with three link. Although these look much better I could never get my autocoach to be pushed without getting buffer lock when going around points (and these were PECO medium radius which are a lot shallower than Hornby)

 

Fortunately the original couplings were a plug in fit (but not NEM) so hopefully the previous owner of your loco just pulled them out.

 

If yes replacement will be easy. The part numbers are as follows:

For wide tension lock couplings, X9660;

For medium width, X8059

For narrow, X9072 (also sold as R8099)

 

The original Airfix couplings were a muchnarrower design and pivoted but relied on a tiny strip of spring steel to centre them. without the spring they are floppy and not much use.

 

Hope this is helpful

 

Steve

[walkingthedog]

Hornby are making an auto coach this year. 

[81F]

@ LC&DR,

 

I presume that the Souther's Auto train system would have been incompatible with the GWR/BR(W)s so one would have to run round like a normal passenger train (assuming you could justify the mix).

[LCDR]

 Yes, The Southern used a three pipe air system for push/pull controls the pipes of which which looked like whiskers hanging down from the buffer beam! I think the GW used vacuum.  I don't think these were compatible in any way.  I am not aware that there was ever a requirement to run both types in the same train. I don't know what the LMS or LNER used.

 

The Southern developed Push Pull working to such an extent that the Bournemouth line electrification was built round the principle.  From that the 125 mph push pull operations on the West and East Coast main lines with class 90 and 91 locos was developed. Little acorns - what!

 

[Jeff Mennell]

 From research done many years ago for my Airfix locos if you want to have a number in the 48XX series it is a reasonably safe bet that the loco would not have top feed. I would also add that it could have either GREAT WESTERN or the shirt button logo.

 

If you want GWR on the tanks then you would have to use the 14XX series but find a photo of that loco to see if it had received it's top feed. The same also applies to any BR liveried locos. Interestingly the now preserved 1420 did not have top feed when it worked the last train to Woodstock (1957?) but had certainly received one by the time it entered preservation. Also 1450 still does not have one now.

 

As an aside I think Airfix descision to make this back in the 1970s was a marketing stoke of genious as I remember most of the articles in the Model railway press were of GWR branch termini and if you had one of these then the 14XX/48XX was a must have loco along with the Auto coach.

 

In the subject of train lengths if operating with an Auto coach as a push/pull unit the most coaches you can have from the loco is two. So the maximum train length would be four Auto Coaches with the loco sandwitched between each pair. Sometimes the loco was sandwiched between two single coaches or had two coaches one end and one the other.

 

Hope this helps

That's useful info thanks. Sorry to ne useless but what is an 'auto coach'?!

 

Can the term 'autocoach' also be used for a model coach that has been modified so it can pick up electic power for the loco? Also what type of branch line coach would be used with this sort of loco? I'm guessing the little ones I have seen on various sites?

Ta

 

Jeff

 

[81F]

 The term Auto Coach (also known as Push-pull) really refers to the real thing and how the real train (loco+coaches) was able to be driven rather than anything to do with models other than how we use them.

 

As to which coach it would be a GWR Autocoach like that shown in my previous post. This link shows 1450 on the bluebell railway in preservation. http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Visiting-Locomotives/1450-and-GWR-Autotrain/i-LT87c2k/ with such a coach both in late GWR livery.

 

You might also like to watch the video at the end of this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFvhbznRnE it shows the last train to Tetbyry with a 14XX and two of the later Auto coaches (like those made by Bachmann). You may need to skip an advert first and it is a bit blurry but it is worth a quick look as it shows the train working in both directions.

 

However, the loco could be used with normal stock but would have to pull the train like any other loco (unless shunting) If you go to this link http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hemyock/ and scroll down you will see number 1420 at Hemyock station on the Clum Valley branch. This lines curves were so tight that they could not run the Auto coaches but could use the 14XX. The photo of 1470 shows it in BR days pulling an ex-Barry railways coach (not available in model form) but similar to one of the Hornby 'B' set. This site has loads of good photos some archive and some in preservation. 14XX were also used to pull short freight trains particularly on the branches they worked..

 

 

[Postman Prat]

 For a time they used a  Thompson Suburban Brake (possibly a 52footer) on the Hemyok branch, because of the track restrictions. Also a lot of the trains were mixed - a coach and maybe 2 or 3 milk tanks.

I can't tell you much more than that - it was GWR after all!  😆

[Jeff Mennell]

 The term Auto Coach (also known as Push-pull) really refers to the real thing and how the real train (loco+coaches) was able to be driven rather than anything to do with models other than how we use them.

 

As to which coach it would be a GWR Autocoach like that shown in my previous post. This link shows 1450 on the bluebell railway in preservation. http://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Visiting-Locomotives/1450-and-GWR-Autotrain/i-LT87c2k/ with such a coach both in late GWR livery.

 

You might also like to watch the video at the end of this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teFvhbznRnE it shows the last train to Tetbyry with a 14XX and two of the later Auto coaches (like those made by Bachmann). You may need to skip an advert first and it is a bit blurry but it is worth a quick look as it shows the train working in both directions.

 

However, the loco could be used with normal stock but would have to pull the train like any other loco (unless shunting) If you go to this link http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/hemyock/ and scroll down you will see number 1420 at Hemyock station on the Clum Valley branch. This lines curves were so tight that they could not run the Auto coaches but could use the 14XX. The photo of 1470 shows it in BR days pulling an ex-Barry railways coach (not available in model form) but similar to one of the Hornby 'B' set. This site has loads of good photos some archive and some in preservation. 14XX were also used to pull short freight trains particularly on the branches they worked..

 

When I mentioned small coaches I think I meant the ones with 4 wheels. When GWR became BR did they continue to use these 4 wheel coaches and where they repainted in BR livery?Also do railway modellers sometimes permanently attach a coach to a loco  for additional electrical pickup?

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

[walkingthedog]

Branch line trains mainly use ordinary length coaches. The small 4 wheeled versions are pretty rare in my view apart from in the early days. 

 

I have a few short wheelbase locos that can lose power over points. I have attached a wagon with pickups permanently to these locos.

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't attach a coach (or several) with pickups to a loco. 

[Jeff Mennell]

Branch line trains mainly use ordinary length coaches. The small 4 wheeled versions are pretty rare in my view apart from in the early days. 

 

I have a few short wheelbase locos that can lose power over points. I have attached a wagon with pickups permanently to these locos.

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't attach a coach (or several) with pickups to a loco.