Re-manufacturing parts no longer available

[Castle-Man]

If you look at the world of Classic cars or motorcycles you find that these days it is as easy to get spares as it was when they were being made.  The reason for this is that the original company no longer exists and there is often a strong user group who arrange such things.

 

Moving accross to the model railway field and things are much more difficult.  Partly because a company holding the rights still exists but they are no longer making the part.  Take as a simple example the Hornby X8886 Airfix Class 61XX Prairie Cylinder Block and Slide Bars.  Stock seems to no longer exist anywhere and it appears that Hornby are no longer making it.

 

Now a part like this would be very simple to 3D scan and 3D print so a user group could possibly put together a sufficient requirement to make an economic run possible.  I suspect though that if they did Hornby would stop it even though they are not prepared to make them.  What is even cloudier is that many 'detailing parts' are available to upgrade our models.  Where is the line drawn?

 

I have simply chosen this part as a random example.  There are many other examples I am sure.  What do others think? 

[The son of Triangman]

The parts would be intellectual property of Hornby so you could well run fowl of IP and Copyright laws on this one.  The quality would have to match the original or be superior and you would need permission off Hornby.  3D printing available to the average home builder doesn't offer this quality yet as you can see the layering in parts still.

 

Also the slide bars of the X.8886/W cylinder block suffer from damage due to being made of plastic so a superior replacement would be needed.

 

[Castle-Man]

Part of my point was that we are in a catch 22 situation.  As an example I deliberately chose a part that seems to go missing and without which a perfectly good model can not be run at all because of the valve gear.

[The son of Triangman]

This is the X.8886/W cylinder block for those who haven't come across the old ex-Airfix 2-6-2 6100 class GWR pannier tank loco which Hornby use.  The slide bars are the weak point on this model.

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[The son of Triangman]

I agree, your best way is to approach Hornby and ask if you can make a superior replacement, it would have to be injection moulded or resin cast with metal slide bars.

[Castle-Man]

Son Of Triangman that doesn't mean by any chance that you know a location with stock does it?  I know that we have no PM system but would be happy for a moderator to give you my email if you do.

[The son of Triangman]

I do know of some stock as it happens.  😎  I was using a pic I took tonight to just illustrate the problem with the model.

[Castle-Man]

Now intregued and searching for clues.   😮

[96RAF]

Son Of Triangman ... but would be happy for a moderator to give you my email if you do.

Mods do not have access to members personal data other than what can be seen by anyone clicking on a members name.

 

To contact one another you must submit a request to site Admin using the contact in the main forum page header. i.e. forum@hornby.com

Rob

[Fazy]

Has anyone ever bothered to ask Hornby. I mean as long as you don't call it Hornby and change the item by ether improving the detail or build. Why should Hornby care. We can buy detail parts from whistles to complete chassis to improve a model with out being suede.  surely a working model is just a improved broken model. 

[Tenpointfive]

Does anyone actually know the copyright law on this? We have seen the Great British Locomotive range copy whole locomotives without sanction, so I cannot see how Hornby could stop the supply of non-original small replacement parts even if they wanted to, which is highly unlikely.  If anyone was nervous about the possibility, I would have thought a simple change, e.g. a very slight dimensional change, or an extra groove in the pattern, would render you safe. 

[Castle-Man]

Thanks RAF96

[81F]

 Of course I would imagine that if you produced a set of Cyclinders from GWR drawings and adapted the design to fit the prarie you wouldn't be "copying" anythging or would you?

[LCDR]

 I would say that once you own the model you are at liberty to repair or adapt it for your own use as you see fit.

The question of Intellectual Property Rights only kicks in if you are making and selling identical things commercially in direct competition. And then there are many different model railway suppliers who make parts for all kinds of locomotives. The cylinders for a GW 61xx Prairie are almost identical to those used on a 43xx Mogul, and Hornby doesn't make this particular model, so if by happy co-incidence you set out to make and sell cylinder castings for a 43xx you would not be in breach surely?

I cannot see that a genuine spares and repairs supplier would fall foul of IPR for discontinued models either. After all the HRCA Spares Directory is full of suppliers of replica parts to restore Meccano Hornby Gauge O and Hornby Dublo stuff which is no longer made, and the case for making parts for Vintage motor vehicles has already been made.

[The son of Triangman]

Here's a thought, you don't even need to make the the cylinder block.  All it needs is for someone to make the slide bar assembly for them as it's the slide bars and associated bracket which are the issue. The bars could be a simple remove the excess of the old bars, drill two holes where the old bars fitted the block and fit.

[NFSCARBON]

I believe that design rights cover designs like this for 10 years and registering the design covers it for a maximum of 25. If the Hornby cylinder block is unchanged from the original Airfix design, then I can't see making a reproduction part being an issue (although out of courtesy I'd still ask hornby's permission).

Seeing as it's so easily damaged however, I'd try and make an improved design in any case.

[SRmike]

I have R2634 Bunsen and R2631 The green Howards with the same chassis and fault. The motor turns but they do not move. The problem appears to be a split gear. Hornby no longer carry spares so is this the solution to my problem

[Mahoganydog]

Replacement chassis are available in the form of etched kits from Comet models for both the large prarie and Patriot. There are others of course but being etched kits they aren't for the beginner and getting them to run properly can be a real pig of a task.

 

It might be worth contacting Comet to see if they can supply just the cylinder parts which you could modify to fit but as to the Patriot gears they wouldn't have anything that fits. By the way, the motor running but having no drive could be an issue with the motor mounts themselves not keeping it in mesh. Got to be worth a look.

 

Jim

[AndyMac1707817969]

There are several examples of replacement third part parts for current or recent Hornby locos. I recently fitted a replacement motor mounting bracket sold by Pete's Spares for the T9 Greyhound as the original one is very prone to breaking.

[Art dent]

Hi Folks

 

I may be wrong (probably am) but surely the issue is the if the item is a DIRECT COPY and is SOLD for PROFIT then you are in breach of IP etc.

 

However, if the part is no longer made & no longer in stock and the item is sold AT COST to REPAIR an item then I don't think you would be guilty of breaching IP.

 

However, as has been mentioned, if the item is DIFFERENT - be it 'improved' or 'more detailed' then I think there is even less of an issue, especially if the part is no longer made/no longer stocked.

 

Think of the parts for vintage cars (plucking one out of thin air) like the MGB.  You can't tell me that there are stocks and stocks of (for example) carburettors or chrome door handles - folks will make a copy based on the original and sell these to restorers.

 

Just my two penn'orth!

 

Art

[AndyMac1707817969]

There is no intellectual property no more than I can go out and buy replacements parts from my car that are not made by the original manufacturer. I can go and buy a kit car that looks like a Ferrari as long as it’s not sold to me with a Ferrari badge on it and there is no intention to deceive.

[Slornie]

Don't Peter's Spares commission the manufacture of some spare parts directly from Chinese factories already? I'm sure I've seen that prominantly mentioned in the adverts they place in the model rail press, alongside the line about having purchased East Kent Models remaining cache of spares.

[flyingfox4475]

If the parts are pattern parts I don't think Hornby can complain. If you think about car parts you find the car makers parts are more expensive than patterned parts.