walkingthedog Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Come on Eric each to his own. We are not saying DCC is no good just that we prefer DC. DC has its problems a so does DCC. You like DCC and I prefer DC. There have been and still are incredible layout that have been running long before DCC appeared. Just enjoy playing trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffingbill Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I guess we all need to understand that “one mans meat is another mans poison” no sense in trying to convert others, so long as we all enjoy our hobby that’s all that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I agree. Some people on here are like brush salesmen trying to sell a duff product. DCC doesn’t need to sold like that, it’s a fantastic product and will sell itself. 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 All,This is a fascinating thread and we will be pleased to let it continue. Please note however, that other peoples preferences for either system must be respected and any posts that start to trade insults with other members will be removed without explanation. (I am particularly interested in the advantages of Analogue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 You don’t have to know which loco it is you want to move, you just need to know where it is. To me this is a huge advantage. I can't make out my locos number from a distance but I can see where it is. 😉 Going by a lot of discussions on here, DC locos "generally" don't keep suffering from the my loco moved 2 feet then stopped and won’t move again syndrome. DC locos don’t have sound 😆 😆 As you state RDS we must respect each others choice so advantages and disadvantages are completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 All I put was that the two systems achieve the same thing by different methods.I wasn't insulting or calling anybody.PuffingBilly said that DCC was rubbish, with constant short circuits, not me. I've not had one single short, or faulty loco, on my DCC layout.I'll say no more on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Cairns Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Jimbopuff mentioned that in his experience DC systems are less sensitive to "dirty track". Have other DC users who perhaps have some experience with DCC systems as well, found this to be the case also? I would have expected DC systems to have similar issues with locomotives stalling. DCC sytems supply both data and power via the track where as DC systems only need to supply power. However, keep alive capacitors can be used on DCC systems to lessen sensitivity to poor track contact.The DCC signal is effectively an AC square wave - does this cause more wheel / track contact issues than a DC only system - I don't know, but I'd be curious what user's experiences are?I do concede that in my own experience - it is critical to keep tracks clean - when using DCC systems. I read with interest the blog about track cleaning a few weeks back on this site - learned lots.So just curious how often DC only system users have to clean the track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I rarely give my DC track a thorough clean, perhaps once a year but I do give the occasional dirty patch a polish. My track doesn’t get very dirty, probably because I keep the wheels clean. I know DCC doesn’t like any dirt at all but it is good practice to keep things clean, DCC or DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Yes your right Eric, he did say that. I can’t see any reason for anybody to suffer with constant short circuits, sounds like bad operating practice to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffingbill Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hi Eric, I an sorry you thought I said DCC was rubbish, what I did say is that it just wasn’t suitable for me because I felt my locos ran better on DC, everyone that is remotely involved in model trains knows that problems can occur with just about every operating system it has been that way since clockwork locos used to break springs right up to the present day DCC, as far as short circuits are concerned I was referring to my mates layout, he buys Australian model railway models many of which have superfine wheels when used with DCC these cause short circuits when passing through his Peco points, when the same locos run on DC he doesn’t have the same problems, regardless as I mentioned in my previous post so long as we are all enjoying this great hobby that’s all that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hi All,I have several of the Hornby locomotives fitted with the XS sound chip. Do any members have a view on whether it is advisable to use the Hornby Locomotives with the XS sound chip on a anologue layout.I have briefly tried some on a anolgue test track and they do complete some of the digital functions.But can the chip be damaged by constant use.Thanks in advance for any advice / comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The XS locos have Loksound decoders in them and are designed to be compatible on DC Analogue controlled layouts. Many of the XS (Loksound Decoders) even have a basic level of 'sound' functionality on DC Analogue as well (unlike the cheaper TTS decoder). My friend has a DC Analogue layout (HM2000) controller and runs XS locos on it without issue..The only long term issue might be if using old types of DC controller. As I said above, my friend uses a HM2000 which is a relatively modern controller using a PWM output.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hi, Thanks for the reply Chris.I have a HM 2000 controller as well as one or two other makes not made by Hornby. Might be a stupid question but what is a PWM output? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Pulse Width Modulation..Click the link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Ah, well that is brain hurting, completely lost.As there are several members replying to this thread who have a lot a knowlege about analogue and digital, I was going to ask next week which are the better controllers available or on sale, but may as well ask now.The analogue controllers I have to run my layout after I refurbish it are shown in first photo.The second shows the two digital ones I have.Could I ask for views which of the analogue ones are best, also which is the better digital one,or should I buy the Elite./media/tinymce_upload/7dcf3ef270e92b755d6be811d6eb05ac.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/bb1887bdedee363a8c31e56a83d70f46.JPGDigital ones are DCC 01 Prodigy Advance, and R8213 Select.I have read the operation sheets for both digital controllers and both say will not run a non digital loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I’m going to say Gaugemaster for DC but only because I use them and they are excellent and have a lifetime guarantee. We shouldn't really be promoting other makes on here though, this is a Hornby forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I have read the operation sheets for both digital controllers and both say will not run a non digital loco..Even if the instruction sheets did say you could run a non DCC loco, whether that be a 'DCC Ready' loco or an older DC Analogue loco, then the consensus advice from forum members would say "don't do it"..The DCC technology used to operate a DC loco on a DCC track is called 'Zero Bit Stretching' commonly referred to as 'Address Zero'. Just because something can be done, does not mean that it is a good idea. When a DC loco sits stationary on a DCC powered track then the motor is vibrating at 7,000 cycles a second. Firstly this frequency is in the audio hearing range so you will hear the loco whining. Secondly, this vibrating generates heat and the motor is not turning to create any cooling effect. The most probable outcome is that sooner of later (some on here say sooner) the motor will burn out..Even the manufacturers that do support 'Address Zero' in their DCC controllers usually have a caveat in their manual regarding possible motor damage and recommend it isn't used..So your next question is going to be.......if 'Address Zero' is such a bad idea, why did any of the manufacturers implement the feature in their controller. The answer is historical......when DCC was first being released to the market. The 'marketing' departments felt it was essential to have some form of 'backward compatibility' with users who had existing DC Analogue layouts and would not have invested in DCC without that feature being offered..To read more...follow this link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Hi Chris, Thankyou very much for the warning re analogue locos.I could have burnt out a lot of exspensive locos.In conclusion, I should only operate Locos fitted with a chip, i.e. locos with 'X' after 'R' number,or DCC ready which have had a chip fitted,afer it left the factory.Also I could use locos with TTS & XS after 'R' number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just run DCC locos on a DCC layout. If it doesn't have a proper DCC chip in it don’t run it on a DCC layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 In conclusion, I should only operate Locos fitted with a chip, i.e. locos with 'X' after 'R' number,or DCC ready which have had a chip fitted,afer it left the factory. Also I could use locos with TTS & XS after 'R' number..Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 If you buy a second hand loco be sure the chip hasn’t been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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