gowest Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/327a5f80601d94dfe0e97bd754058981.jpgSlip CoachI like unusual things and one thing I have been giving great thought to is a slip coach.These enabled an express train to keep going through a station but uncouple its last coach on the move thereby not losing any time stopping and starting. There were a few things to consider how to make a coupling that was under load from the rest of the train and the engine pulling hard up the front plus the braking system still had to be fail safe but enable the train brake pipes to be cut yet not set the train into an emergency stop and to do this the vacuum in the coach and train had to be maintained./media/tinymce_upload/8578931c277c60e8adf0a334cce3ea80.jpgThe radio control system that I thought of using was the type fitted to the coke can cars it is very small and comes with a good gear system and motor.The coach a rather old one can be the donor coach and the radio control will fit easily in side These radio unit do not have a very good range but that wont matter as you need eye contact to see what’s happening and when to start breaking./media/tinymce_upload/5b0a4d95bb731fb2eb2e935373c3491f.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/55780215b9a591e546525b91dba1ea4f.JPGI have just drawn out the change to the front of the coach and also remove the coupling bar from the front of the coach as the coach will rely on its own coupling to stay connected For a 00 gauge model that was to run on my live steam set up I thought of a radio control unit consisting of 2 channels one for the brakes and one for the uncoupling.The proposed design would be something like in the drawing here.One electric motor and gear box with the output gear having a pin fixed to it as the gear revolved the pin would lift the arm and so uncouple the coach from the rest of the train./media/tinymce_upload/959f5149aa8d1e4dc88b767aa00dada0.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/3a5d6e69a779adfd335c5d144f05c2af.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/705e0ed2247fc15e4460c12ed8fd15f3.JPGA change for maybe a more simpler set up was to solder some brass strip to the Hornby coupling making an arm that reaches up inside the coach This arm would have a threaded nut fix on a pivot.The motor gear box would have a screw thread on a loose coupling.As the screw revolves it will pull on the arm and the coupling will release.The Hornby bogie once fitted to the coach chassis floor would have a platform screwed to it on the inside of the coach this way when the bogie turns the motor gear box and lead screw will follow in the same direction thereby keeping all parts in line.The brakes could also be built into this syatem so that it might work in 2 stages the first stage would be to press the transmit button for the motor to start turning which will uncouple the coach when this has been achieved release the transmit button and wait for the coach to reach the station.As the coach rolls into the station press the transmit button again and the arm the moves further and applies the brakes./media/tinymce_upload/256ffffee475975a68ddcb2f1836b9b6.jpgThis is the Hornby coupling hook with the link arm soldered to it but not the brakes yet one thing at a time./media/tinymce_upload/46713a5a324589613e58f46aec13e87a.jpgNext I remove the coupling bar from the front of the bogie as the only connection we need will be the slip coach hook.Then I made the slot in the bogie body about 3 mm longer to allow the arm to move further back which then allows the hook to be raised high enough to uncouple from the main train./media/tinymce_upload/7a059c3676b03318c7a1be004bb1b0a3.jpgThen a curved slot was needed in the coach floor so that the arm will travel in an ark with the bogie as the coach made turns to the left and right./media/tinymce_upload/b21c0d403225c64fcbb0e371aa587e67.jpgThe motor and gearbox from the car was cut off the back end of the car chassis and the driving wheels removed./media/tinymce_upload/c9252a7d3114cf674ce4581b3b803d38.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/0d6687fc8acd9c72b45407a931ac3eb9.jpgNow with all the parts so far made the bogie was fitted in place to see how things were going./media/tinymce_upload/56cc10c46c0e164c900e7568b48d3b3d.jpgAll looked ok as the lever was pulled back the hook disengaged far enough to uncouple from the train./media/tinymce_upload/53c00d175e0c62229c213437e016b960.jpgPlacing the radio and the motor gearbox in the positions that they are likely to be when the fixing points and other parts which now need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/89fdaca90b517c9d30d86a67dd1603c9.jpgNow with the motor and gear box fitted to the bogie the lead screw drive is the next part.Also looking at the gear box being as it has 2 out put shafts 2 lead screws could be fitted one to work the coupling and one to apply the brakes./media/tinymce_upload/408ebd8c59d184505989b68135b2a467.jpgHow it worksSome thoughts on the operation of the slip coach might be like this.UncouplingWhen uncoupling is carried out the up arrow button on the transmitter is pressed one of the 2 oil lamps will then light up yellow via an LED on the front of the coach this will showing that the coupling is being unhooked from the train and the coach will part company from the train.BrakingWhen braking is needed the down button on the transmitter is pressed this time the red oil lamp of the 2 will light up red on the front of the coach showing braking is being carried out./media/tinymce_upload/599df921dbfbc70d89682e404207c6a5.jpgThis picture shows the complete assembly of the uncoupling unit its time to connect this unit to the radio board and battery and see if it works./media/tinymce_upload/37c583d07e4c039aa80d5148387e42ff.jpgAll wired up and ready for a test ruin I think the battery and the radio will go under the chassis along with the on off switch.this way the seats can be fitted and any work like fitting a new battery can be done with out taking the coach apart./media/tinymce_upload/d0bb72924344c4914ecb0ec039023ecd.jpgThe front of the coach with the 2 oil lamps windows bell and the sign SLIP /media/tinymce_upload/c230675b14693a499df492c9c9e6c16b.jpgWith the oil lamps switched on you can see ones red and ones yellow these will only operate when one of the two buttons on the transmitter are pressed./media/tinymce_upload/4a790ca14f435dcc4d24d1116369ef30.jpgThe coach all back together again but still needing the wiring and radio to be added./media/tinymce_upload/59c03bf32964bdf4da15b3c43d3a5bad.jpgI have carried out a few test runs and it works ok in fact the coach run to a halt in about 12ft to 15 inches so at this moment in time I do not think brakes are necessary.I will carry out a few more tests and see if I can put some video on you tube. The tests were not with live steam but the old zero one system because its easier to stop and make adjustment to the coach. Once the bugs are out then I will try a live steam run but would expect there not to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 You obviously have to make a simple modification to the vehicle immediately leading the slip coach Ken, in that it has to have its hook removed, else when the slip coach hook relases the other hook would still be engaged. Looking good so far. Best of luck if you have to fit brakes though, as those brake shoes and linkage will be fiddly to make and mount. How about a friction clamp on the axle if needed, although I can see a few cups of tea being spilled in the coach as it crash stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Hi Robthe coupling bar has been removed from the slip coach so it only the slip coach hook that is keeping the coach attach to the train had a thought about brakes in bed last night as I wanted something that would not create drag when the coach is running and thought of 2 gears one large and one small the smaller one would be on a motor the larger one on an axle the motor gear would have most of the teeth removed from one side this way if the teeth were in mesh when the coach moved off the gears will turn till they came to the part with no teeth and the axle will then revolve with out an load and be free to turn.to stop the idea is that a voltage is applied to the motor and turn in the wrong direction they way when the teeth spin round they engage and try to turn the axle in the wrong direction thus causing the coach to stop a bit like ABS brakes but just an idea will see what happens?ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Ken you don’t need to drive the motor in reverse or mess with the gears. If you apply a short across the brushes of a rotating motor the bemf generated will brake the motor.I used to use the method on slot cars in the 60’s but never understood then how it worked. It has since been explained to me.I just wonder if turning a motor continuously via the axle will be too much drag anyhow, unless it was a very small motor like the one used in that r/c lorry.Also how do you rig the motor shorting mechanism electronically to cut in at brake application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Hi Robyes a good idea to turn the motor into a brake should not be a problem to do as the outputs from the radio servo drive side is all negative going and is only switch on when the transmitter button for that Chanel is pressed the only reason I think this might not be the way to go is the motor will be turning all the time the coach is going round the track.And adding drag to the coach once uncoupled the rolling resistance will be increased and the distance the coach will roll on its own reduced By using the gear with half the teeth removed will be like putting your car in neutral and just letting it roll along the roadlikewise it means the motor is not connected to the axle and the axle and wheels set have no work to do and will be free running so that no energy will be absorbed by the motor.its only when the half gear on the motor is powered up and starts to turn in the wrong direction that this action will load up the gear and axle causing the wheels to slow or stop turning.but all to be tested and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 New brakes work ok with this set up you can even drive the coach down the track will take some video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I have followed this project with interest and, like you Ken, I am delighted it works. Can't wait to see the video. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/511e1d9f77c12e5b857b00bb96a39480.JPGThe other bogie with the brake idea which works ok/media/tinymce_upload/3827293d1d4c0e0fc9482810ea2773d7.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/35cb2657fd80aa935784e7ac8595a079.jpgThe under side of the coach and you might just see the small red knob of the on/off switch built into the coach battery box./media/tinymce_upload/5c933d47fed995e69630576fa3828342.jpgThe oil lamps fitted to the coach I believe they had these to show it was a slip coach but maybe someone might know different.And the warning bell worked by a peddle inside the cab./media/tinymce_upload/fb7217d96a81fcb229a054013fc8de97.jpg The transmitter with the function buttons mark for the different operations.hope this works the you tube video happt modling keep safekem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Brilliant! R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Hi Roger BGlad you liked the project it reminded me of my TrI ang Royal Mail set which I still have and some may remember when you hung a mail bag on a hook the mail coach came by and picked up the mail bag on the move and chucked it out at a small station like building all on the move that gave hours of fun just putting the mail bag out and watching it delivered all on the move.i showed my wife the video for her comment and she said why was the blue engine parked in the road outside the shops was that to do with not going out and the virus, was the driver doing shopping for someone? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 why was the blue engine parked in the road outside the shops It also caught my eye - but the overall effect of the slip and brake mechanisms you have dreamt up, built and fitted won the day. What's next? R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Roger Bback to the GWR tank engine and the A4 to LMS conversion tell me your postings are of what looks like an old electric train that I can remember on the Shenfied line years ago I think the yellow part on the cab was when they were changing fron dc to ac my brother in law work on the sliding stock at Ilford car sheds years ago one of the sliding door units has been saved but needs restoratio which did go and see a couple of years back.Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Having lived near Victoria & London Bridge Stations at various parts of my youth I was after something like you can see in the opening shots from film. The image itself was grabbed from one of those Royalty Free sites. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 17, 2020 Author Share Posted April 17, 2020 Hi Roger great film and yes from days gone by SR electrification which I believe were standard slam door coach set stock converted to electric which was the same cheap way the trains from Fenchurch to Southend line used but on over head wires?if I have it wrong then someone will tell me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Superb Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 Ken,Fantastic. I don't post often on your threads because there's very little I could add or suggest. But I've watched most of them and I am in awe of your modelling/maching skills and the results. I run dcc not live steam but have now added a Slip coach to my list of "To do projects". Nice video too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Hi 37 lovewould be a bit easier on DCC maybe in the video I was running an electric engine on zero 1 and even that with 2 coded modules one for the coupling and one for the brakes would not be a problem would love to here how you get on and no doubt others to you never know Hornby might even produce one?ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 The r/c tipper lorry screw jack would be an ideal DCC solution if it were not for the cost. One to ackle the coupling and another to ackle the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Robas the DCC man I bet you could work something out I just use a 10ba screw and made up a brass nut off of the drive unit from the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 19, 2020 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I don’t have your ability to make miniature mechanisms Ken due to fumble fingers, so for simplicity I would opt for memory wire for both functions, although recoupling would not be as positive as yours unless there was a return spring Involved. I don’t know how instant memory wire is at responding for braking purposes or would we sail past the platform waiting for it to warm up. One length may do both jobs - uncouple and brake at the same time. I will see if I can get hold of some wire and make a mock up on the bench. I have an old coach that was earmarked for conversion into a diesel brake tender, but it may get diverted onto this interim task before the final chop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 We will wait and see what you come up with all the best Happy engineering rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 We will wait and see what you come up with all the best Happy engineering rob Got an idea for it Ken but having great trouble finding ‘muscle wire’ that reacts at a max current of 100mA. Even 1/4mm diam wire needs 1.5A to create an adequate reaction force. Having said that this stuff certainly can pull hard, the standard test is calibrated on lifting a set weight per set input current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Rob/Ken,I have absolutely no idea, so shoot me down at your leisure, but could a micro server [as with RC cars, etc] be rigged to operate via a relay from a decoder. No point me wasting time thinking about the physical operation if the voltage/current/etc means it's a non-runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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