gowest Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 37loveyes the micro servo idea would work I take it strip out the electronics and why not wire straight into the DCC board I have and operate the old zero one stuff and know once you have typed in the chips I'd you get stop start forwards and backwards which if connected to the lead screw would work but I nothing about the new digital system that is offered today but Rod is the expert and might tell us or me how the system could be used to control the 2 functions of the Slip coach over to you Rob no pressure.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 I have no experience of operating servos using DCC or any other way for that matter, but I believe you can operate them from an accessory decoder. Finding one of those that would fit in a coach may be a challenge. Maybe someone makes a servo with a built in decoder. Edit - Train-Tech SVP1 servo controller starter pack may do it using either loco mode (speed knob actuation) or accessory mode (2 position range). £35 though including micro servo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Ken,I'm thinking the uncoupling linkage taken off the servo arm near to the pivot point and a link to the brake taken further out along the arm. So say a 10 degree rotation of the arm would lift the coupler [and disengage the coach] but not enough rotation to apply the brake and then a second press of the function button would turn the arm a bit more and apply the brake. It might even be possible to set them up off the same arm point - all [!] that is needed is to have some slack in the brake mechanism so it doesn't apply when the servo arm only turns a little. This would need a pulse type function from the decoder [that only sends a brief signal]. We shall have to wait for Rob to comment.Edit: I see that Rob has posted whilst I was typing. I shall go away and do some research and a bit more lateral thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 By using a 555 timer this simple circuit could be used to drive the servo how to interface this with the DCC I'm not sure as it's drawn the pot adds speed and direction as it is turned and this might be the place to interface with the DCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/fdda3ef6894f06e6e6ee5e376452a8e1.jpgin the diagram R1 which should be RV1 is the part that operates the servo and it might be at this point that a link to the Hornby dcc can be made but i think we are getting into making this all to complicated like my zero one system dcc runs point and the like so why not install a point motor inside the coach and cconnect the poit motor to a quadrant which could then lift the coupling hook from the train?ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Ken,Did you design that diagram? A man of many talents. I have a simple understanding of the 555 timer and if I study hard could probably work out what your diagram does. I presume it produces the basic signal [frequency] that keeps the servo central and then this is altered via the 555 to rotate the servo arm. I previously hadn't appreciated that the servos need a constant signal and that changes to that signal cause the servo to operate. Last night I spent a bit of time looking into very slowly geared micro motors without success but of course your idea of using a point motor certainly is worth further investigation. Of course there are different types of point motor; tortoise vs slam dunk. At least I have a couple of point motors lying around that I might experiment with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 No I did not design this circiut I got it off the Internet I did build one years ago not as complex as this for my radio controlled plans yes the 555 timer is a very versatile chip and has hundreds of uses.i to have a set of Hornby point motors and load of zero one chip so might have a go like you didn't hornby make an uncoupling electric unit? as I think I had one from years ago.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Your Heinkel deleted Ken. Good to know you got it to work. I can bin the other posts if you want to keep the thread clear. I would never have thought about using a solenoid motor as an actuator. Sorry to divert the thread a little... @37L - free electronics project books including this one - 555 circuits. The other free books are also interesting to browse through. Unfortunately below is a screen grab so the hyperlinks are not live - you will have to type them in./media/tinymce_upload/a1c207bd606c66edaa59be581c73fa7d.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Thank you Rob. I'll try and get them bookmarked but even with all the extra free time from the lockdown I doubt I will get to spend much time study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Yes Rob please tidy up my postings well done on the 555 chip you are a mind of knowledge and at tracking down thingsken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke 71000 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Gowest,Wonderful idea, although it has been done before on a Club exhibition layout probably 20+ years ago.GWR Slip coaches are available in kit form from both Wizard Models (Barton upon Humber) & also Roxey Mouldings (Walton-on -Thames). Both single and double ended type slip coach kits available.The original method to slip a coach on the exhibition layout relied on the model slip coach being very free wheeling so it had brass axle bearings, and being an etched brass kit was also a bit heavier than plastic RTR coaches.The actual method of slipping the coach was designed into the layout. The track approaching the station was on a very slight (and subtle) down gradient. The method of uncoupling the coach at the correct position, was done simply by nothing more complex than a piece of clear plastic film carefully fitted in the track so as the vehicle passed over it (fitted like a classic old fashioned uncoupling ramp) lifted the coupling hook. The actual couplings used on that layout were the "Spratt & Winkle" type. (Very light and fine themselves). It worked fluently.... The Duke 71000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 71000thanks for your input it was very interesting but I started this project to reproduce in miniature a fully operating Slip coach I can stop it where I like and with brakes stop it where I like it these old rail items I have modeled and from time to time something pops I the old mind and straight away start to work out how something might work the Hornby uncoupling unit that fits in the track with the yellow lollipop sticking up could no doubt do the same thing I have a couple of these but would not be impressed with that idea so they are still in the boxwith the coach I built here it has a lot more enjoyment as there a several things to consider 1 how fast the train needs to be running2 at which point do you make the slip3 when is it time to hit the brakes to stop the coach in the right placewith the set up that you described it leaves noting for the operator to do the clear plastic determines when the Slip happens and no brakes so just a rolling stop.still if that what someone would like with out the engineering that not a bad system.i will stick to the almost reality of live steam and live Slip coach.ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 /media/tinymce_upload/ea9b7345c49f44f95ccd5ffb2bc5b394.JPGThought I would post thiswhen I was building this Slip coach I sent off for a couple of these lead screw drive units as you can see they are very small looking from the right hand end of the picture the section with 93L on is the motor the the next section is a epicyclic gear box then the screw assembly the only problem is that it is built with a stepper motor with 4 inputs which would mean adding a driver unit adding more electronics but a possibility don't think I will both as it arrived in the post too late to be considered but need to get on with other projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 I agree with you Ken, it is only your posts that keep me coming back to the forum looking for your updates. Keep them coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 KenHow to convert a four wire stepper motor to a reversable constant speed motor As they say there is a prototype for everything..That looks to be a handy little linear actuator - point motor ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Just realised that the transformer he used is outputting AC and the cap is phase shifting to get the motor to run. False alarm for what could have been a handy little motor-gearbox actuator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 Hi Robyes thanks for the link just seen the video and as you say he didn't explain that the capacitor was shifting the frequency out of time to the main ac supply I have a similar thing I fitted to my milling machine which has a 3 phase motor but by adding a large capacitor makes it think it running on 3 phase and a switch that moves the capactor wire to one or other of the 3 motor wires gives forward and reverseAs for this unit I bought nothing came with the motor I have but some run on 5 volts there must be ways of simplifying the drive unit like the chap says in the video for the motor again our old friend the 555 timer which generates an out put + and - and using a capacitor to shift the frequency may be an idea might do some testing or better still check on the net to see if someone has already done it.Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 Hijust had an idea that will work by using the old 555 timer to drive a 4017 counter chip so that once a count of 4 has been Cher pin 5 does a rest and the unit counts from one again if the 555 has a pot then by turning the pot the speed of the motor can be controlled from fast to slow /media/tinymce_upload/6168174ac2f176f559c28267c61e0e9e.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Sonds like a plan Ken.I need to ask you about my solid state relay panel - will email direct.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitter Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Hi Rob / Ken, please keep us informed how you get on with your thoughts on this. I'm very impressed with this sub forum and the engineering projects you take onboard. Great reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 It also caught my eye - but the overall effect of the slip and brake mechanisms you have dreamt up, built and fitted won the day. What's next? R-BWhats next indeed?someone tell me did any company make a break down crane. With this in mind and using bits of the hornby live steam engines could a working steam crane be constructed I'm only thinking out loud not a commitmen.my father told me that they had one a Stratford for a time but with electrifycation a more modern system was needed that wouldn get tangled up with over head wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Plenty steam cranes about Ken, mostly vertical boilers, https://pin.it/70RFx90 I have a nice little book about building vertical model boilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Hi Robthanks for that I think my memory tells me that years ago hornby did make a model but not sure if it was a diesel one?ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 Foot notejust to say the video of the Slip coach has had 1,569 views and many comments which pop up in my emails I would never think something so unimportant would attract so much interest maybe Hornby should build one?ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 You’ll be the second person to know if they do Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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