PVA Glue!? [drying issues when ballasting]

[Jakemj84]

Morning all

So we got back from the Lake District on Friday after visiting a great shop called Jackson’s Model shop in Wigton (if ever you’re up that way, I thouroughly recommend them, very friendly and very well stocked). I finally racked all track down and was happy it was running well. No shorts and power seems to run as it should. So we started ballasting… have one of those hopper units and used it as wel as touching up where needed etc. (side note, we haven’t done any points yet as this is going to be more delicate and need to be done by hand I’m guessing) Anyway… I mixed a solution of PVA and Water, was going for 50/50 but actually added a bit more water as it still seemed too thick… started dripping it down over the ballast with a pipette and all seemed well. The next day some had dried but as I expected it was still wet in places. By this point I’d only ballasted about 15% of the layout as know you need to take time. Anyway, here’s my question… at what point should I expect the glue to go clear? Some of it has in areas where it was applied more thinly and maybe letting my son apply some was a mistake because I think he may have applied it too thick. There are still many areas where it’s white and visible especially on some of the sleepers… I wasn’t going to weather the sleepers but am considering it now to cover up some of the glue? Is this a bad idea? I dunno… just hoping we’ve not wrecked it by using too much glue or the incorrect consistency.

I guess I’m just looking for any pointers or tips before I move further down the line (excuse the pun)

I have watched a few videos but I guess I’m just nervous to really crack on in fear of ruining things.

Thanks

[The son of Triangman]

For it to go clear you need to put a tiny spot of washing up liquid in the mix, otherwise the glue dries a mix of transparent and white. I would give pva mix a week to dry properly in warm conditions.

[threelink]

Diluted PVA can take anything up to 2 weeks weeks to dry out especially if applied generously. You may just have to be patient. Gentle heat from e.g a hair dryer might speed things up a little but beware of drying out the surface and leaving damp trapped beneath, or causing distortion of the track or trackbed by uneven drying or overheating. Dried PVA is colourless so if some of yours is still white, it is not dry. I doubt that you will have "wrecked" anything, as you put it - PVA is harmless to all materials. Good luck with the rest of the ballasting. Adding a drop or two of washing up liquid to the dilute PVA will reduce surface tension and maybe allow the use of less water in the mix.

[Brew Man]

I've not used PVA yet, but no doubt will at some point. I have, however read a fair bit about it and regarding the mix consistency, the perceived wisdom seems to be 80% water. What's the general opinion here?

[Chrissaf]

Personally, I have used 50/50 with a drop of 'washing up' and that gave [in my experience] the optimum drying time [overnight] and dried clear.

EDIT: Forgot to add [others below have reminded me] I too performed a light 'pre damping spray over' with clean water also with a drop of washing up liquid in it to moisten the ballast before applying the 50/50 mix.

[37lover]

Jacob,

As you have now seen there are many different opinions. My own view, with perhaps a biased academic background, is that a few drops of washing up liquid helps to reduce the surface tension but will have no effect on the eventual clarity. Just give it time. When I glued my ballast I used a 3 water and 1 PVA mix. I also gave the ballast a light mist spray of water a few minutes before applying the diluted pva mixture.

[Brew Man]

I guess the message might be, experiment on small unwanted items until you get to your sweet spot.

[96RAF]

A couple of things to beware of...

1. I know this is not ballast related but PVA reacts with lead and if used in confined spaces like wagons can expand and bust open your wagon.
2. Water is conductive so until your ballast is dry you risk short circuits if you power up the track.

[threelink]

@96RAF

I have not come across any reaction between lead and PVA, nor any expansion problems - can you give more detail of your experiences?

@Brew Man

50/50 PVA and water plus a drop of washing up liquid and a light pre-spray with clean water has never failed to produce acceptable results for me.

[96RAF]

@3link

I am sure it is on this forum somewhere but PVA and Lead forms a gas that expands the lead and if in a sealed environment like a tanker or loco body, etc it will distort the body.

Here is an example from another forum found as a result of googling ‘lead reacting with pva’. https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2737

and another one https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=28002

It seems that lead shot reacts more badly than sheet lead.

[threelink]

@96RAF

Well I'll be hanged (or a word much like it). I've been using PVA for years not just for modelling but for bookbinding and woodwork. I had no idea that acetic acid from PVA attacks lead, so you are right to say that it should not be used to secure lead weights in vehicles. One never ceases to learn!

[morairamike]

Give it a couple of days and it should dry. It goes clear when dry.

I use Ballast Bond which is pre watered down. Very runny but it soaks into the ballast easily. Some areas take 48 hours to go off.

My track is laid on Gaugemaster pre-ballasted foam, I use loose ballast between the tracks, between the tracks and scenery and on the points.

[Graham-1219873]

I used the method Hornby suggested in their How to build videos. I glued ballast directly onto the baseboard and left it for 24 hours and nailed my track on top. It has a different look but it has worked out really nice.

[RDS]

@Graham

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[Jakemj84]

Update… the glue has dried quite well. It has left a slight white tint to the sleepers but I will correct this with sleeper grime! Cheers for the help all :)