R40372 Carriage Pack Images are wrong

[What About The Bee]

The carriage pack R40372 show images of locomotive Tiger.

There are going to be some very surprised folks.

They will rely upon the photos, thinking they are getting a top end loco for £94.

What they will get is 1st Carriage Times and qty 2 of 3rd Class Blue Carriages. This is specified in the text, so read carefully.

This should be addressed by Hornby

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Image one shows two boxes. They appear to be R30233 Tiger Train Pack and R40372 Times Carriage pack. Tiger is also shown outside of the box with 3 coal wagons, consistent with the R20233 Tiger Train Pack.

Image two shows 1st class carriage Times with two 3rd class carriages. I believe this is the correct image for R40372. You will note that this is entirely consistent with the content of R40371 Huskisson (one 1st, two third) and at almost the same price.

Image three shows locomotive Tiger pulling Times and two 3rd class carriages, inconsistent with any individual product, albeit similar to the content associated with R30232 Lion Train Pack. Perhaps this was a prior marketing concept drawing that got superceded when the coal wagons replaced the passenger carriages, and snuck through?

What's inside specifies: 3×coaches

Tech Specs specifies: 4 parts

If Hornby is going to sell both sets for £94.99, we have a deal.

Bee

[RDS]

@Bee

Could you please stop adding multiple carriage returns at the end your posts.

[What About The Bee]

@RDS

My goodness. What an odd response.

I discover that Hornby have made an innocent error. This error is bound to create customer ill will if not corrected. The customer will get the item, only to discover there is no locomotive, even though the page prominently featured that locomotive, Tiger, in imagery. I make the extra effort to not only point the error out, but to document the details. Cross referenced by product number to permit ease of investigation! Non-trivial to get all those product numbers correct.

What response did I get? Did I get a "we will look into that", "whoops, we will fix that", "thanks for lettings us know!", "we appreciate that, great effort!" or "Hornby will be informed at our earliest"? Nope. None of that.

The response I got was to "stop adding white space at the end of a post". ??????

Oooookay, sure. No problem 🙂

The important thing is that Hornby is informed about the error. Would you kindly take some notice of this issue and acknowledge that it will be passed on?

Bee

No white space! 🙂

[What About The Bee]

This exact issue was just raised by an upset customer, albeit for a different item

https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/beatles-train-set-339416?ccm_paging_p=1#end-of-replies

Perhaps the person in sales who is approving these images unaware of an unwritten rule of the internet. "Images are part of the terms of sale. What you see is what you get."

WYSIWYG

Bee

[P-Henny]

Perhaps the person in sales who is approving these images unaware of an unwritten rule of the internet. "Images are part of the terms of sale. What you see is what you get."

WYSIWYG

 

 

There is a contradictory rule of Internet Selling. Namely E&OE (Errors & Omissions Excepted) Google E&OE for context.

Hornby's published T&Cs also have this statement in it:

"It is understood and agreed that product images are not necessarily representative of the finished model."

I do agree however that said, that Hornby should strive to not make mistakes and acknowledge those that are raised. But they can only realistically respond when error issues are reported directly to them via 'Customer Services'. As I understand it, this forum is not a direct route to appropriate Hornby departments and is subject to a moderator passing comments up the chain of command if they see fit to do so.

[RB51]

Correct P-Henny, the forum is not generally monitored by Hornby staff and we would always advise direct contact with customer services, as you say, for individual queries.

In some instances such as product launches we will co-ordinate issues as they arise and forward these to Hornby in a regular and monitored way so that we can keep both Hornby and forum Members up to date with the status of matters arising. We would always try to mention when we are doing this and post back on here with updates as they are communicated to us. R-

[What About The Bee]

Hornby's published T&Cs also have this statement in it:

"It is understood and agreed that product images are not necessarily representative of the finished model."

 

 

Was it understood by Patricia (Beatles Train Set)? NO!

Did she understand that Hornby shows a picture with 2 items but she only gets 1?

I haven't bothered with the exact quantities, and these numbers are merely representative. Which leads me to a simple fix. How hard is it to put text onto images? If you have observed any of my posts, bless your heart for enduring it, but you will have noticed that my images do contain text. Getting the imagery correct is far trickier, in particular, colorizing mechanical drawings is insane, but text is simple. Duck soup simple.

If Hornby insists on showing images that contain multiple products, they should so note this ON THE IMAGE. "Your train can look like this! It includes R1, R2, R14 and R3078"

There is a term for Hornby's sales practice, which out of courtesy for a company I admire, I will not use. But Hornby is doing themselves no favors.

Hornby can hide legalese in some part of their pages which technically provides an excuse. That doesn't mean that the general public will be happy with it.

As to contacting Hornby directly on this point, prior responses to the forum indicate that Hornby replies that "the images aren't binding, the item wasn't in the text". In other words, they know the images are misleading.

[What About The Bee]

There is a finer point to be considered here.

The T&C raised is to cover Hornby when the produced model does not match a CAD rendering.

CAD models may not be realized in actual parts. The part could be impractical or otherwise unachievable. That indeed is normal and to be expected. Hornby needs to produce images of a product before the product is produced. Therefore, the artwork in an offering may be a CAD drawing. I accept that as reasonable. That is normal business practice.

Showing 2 items and delivering 1 is not "normal business practice"

[P-Henny]

Just browsed the Beatles product page in question to look at the queried image.

The image is clearly showing both sides of the same train pack, presumably done that way because both sides have different livery images. The clue to that is because the image not only shows two locos, but also the bottom train is facing the other way to the top train. If it had been four coaches in the pack, there would only have been one loco. The text was also very clear on the page that the product was one loco and two coaches.

I do however agree that this would have been even more obvious if the two train sides had been published as two completely independent photos, rather than being combined on one.

[What About The Bee]

Hi P-Henry

I have a ton of respect for you. You are helpful and polite. Non-confrontational. When I see one of your diplomatic responses, I know it will be considered and reasoned. Respect.

May I request you examine R40372. Pray tell, what does the customer receive?

Bee

[P-Henny]

As you have requested it, I have looked at the R40372 shop page.

The top title clearly states "Coach Pack" and not "Train Pack". This is confirmed by the "What's Inside" section stating '3 x coaches'. But I am experienced in navigating Hornby's shop pages and know the differences between a 'Coach' and 'Train' pack. I also wouldn't have clicked the 'buy' button without first reading the whole page, so for me I would have seen the '3 coach' text confirmation.

But putting on my 'I know nothing' head and looking at the page objectively, I agree with you that if you didn't read the whole text page you could easily be fooled into thinking that the loco was included (mainly because the loco appears in more than one image). I agree that Hornby should add some text in a prominent position (say below the image for example) that the loco is not included and only shown for information.

P.S its Henny not Henry. But I'm used to it, as many on here seem to assume I'm a Henry and not a Paul.grinning

[RB51]

We will push this one up the line, as it is obviously confusing. R-

[What About The Bee]

Doh! I am an idiot! It is Henny and not Henry. My apologies. Details are important, and I do seem to have missed this one.🤦 I was wrong, it will not happen again.

If I may be so bold, we seem to agree. From experience, we know to examine the page in minute detail. To not be fooled by clever artwork or terminology.

If the Hornby website is to be the Hornby storefront, then it should be accurate. That has been my only goal in this particular thread. New enthusiasts will be swiftly put off by apparent misbehavior. Certainly Patricia and her Beatles Train will be. Even if Hornby has the best of intentions in this matter, relying on a buried T&C just doesn't sit right. Getting a message that "you didn't read the text, the images aren't binding" is not going to engender good will.

Indeed, here is a further example. R30090 is a Train Pack. It comes with a locomotive and 3 carriages. The last carriage has been under my intense scrutiny, and I am satisfied with it. Booth illustrated early carriage. Strictly as a function of that carriage, I have placed my order. There are 3 carriages in the pack and the two 1st class carriages in the image have names. By detailed examination of the photograph, I can see that the names are "Traveler" and "Huskisson". Should I rely on the image? I've requested clarification, 2×, and am patiently awaiting a response. I have on order R40371, which definitely includes "Huskisson". I've no need for two "Huskisson" carriages. Should I cancel my order for R40371 or keep it? Hopefully, this illustrates how confusion can arise from what is presented by Hornby. How many "Huskisson" carriages will I end up with? 2, 1 or 0?

Bee

[Ruth-355106]

An explanation on the email that you sent would have been helpful. Then would not have wasted time trying to find out why the order was cancelled.

[96RAF]

No good asking the forum Ruth as no one on here knows why or even what your post is about. Hornby will not see this gripe, so you need to get in touch with customer services.

[Going Spare]

Presumably this post relates to R40372, which currently does not appear on the website, but RMweb members are reporting having been advised by Hornby that the R30234 Caledonian Single train pack has been cancelled because they no longer have the complete set of tools needed.