HM7000 decoder in Dapol Class 59 Loco

[NigC]

Good evening all. Having successfully set up Hornby HM7000 decoders in 3 Hornby locos, I decided to try one in my Dapol Class 59. I have got all

The sounds working fine, but no control at all of the lighting. 

Has anyone done this successfully ? If so what did you do please. Dapol instructions show CV’s that need values, but most of the ones they specify are not editable (or missing) in the HM7000 CV editor. 

I am posting photos of both Dapol instructions and Hornby CV editor screens - can anyone help please ?

[96RAF]

Look at the 7000 decoder manual and look for the F-keys applicable to those descriptions listed in the second image. These are termed Hardware function outputs controlled by what Hornby calls Aux key functions. The manual explains about HFOs and their associated F-Keys which are different for sound and non-sound decoders, typically F0-F1 versus F20-24.

The CVs applicable to lighting are only for adjusting the brightness level and mode of operation such as steady, flash, flicker, strobe, etc.

See here...

HFOs versus description

Lighting effects versus HFOs

Sound decoder F-keys

Non sound decoder F-keys

[P-Henny]

I'm a little confused here.

The second image seems to suggest that the Dapol already had a decoder fitted by Dapol.

I assume therefore that you removed this Dapol decoder to fit the Hornby HM7000 one. If the Dapol did not have a factory fitted decoder, the instructions in the second image clearly state that they are applicable to a Dapol decoder and therefore are only relevant if a Dapol decoder is fitted.

Therefore the Functions & CVs in the second image will now be completely irrevelant to a HM7000 decoder as they will be specific to a Dapol decoder.

Function features & CVs are stored in the decoder and not stored in the loco.

Only those function features & CVs available in the HM7000 decoder will be available to use in the loco. As RAF says, read the HM7000 manual for information on what they are.

EDIT: The manual extract images in post above were not visible when I wrote this reply.

[NigC]

To clarify - this model is DCC ready - Dapol put the same sheet of instructions in both versions.

I have simply put a HM7000 decoder in, to see if I can use that to provide sound.

[96RAF]

In that case F0 is your basic directional lighting with F21-24 controlling your additional lighting functions if possible, noting that Aux 3 and 4 are digital low-level outputs not full 12 volt so they rely upon additional electronics on-board the loco.

[P-Henny]

As I said in my first reply. The information written in the Dapol instructions (second image) do not apply to any non-Dapol decoder such as the Hornby HM7000 TXS one and are irrevelant.

You haven't said what 'form' the decoder socket in the Dapol loco is i.e 21MTC, Next18 etc.

The pins used by a Dapol decoder for lighting may not possibly match the pins used by the HM7000. They probably do, but it is something that needs checking by comparing the manuals for the recommended Dapol Imperium decoder with the Hornby one.

[NigC]

Thanks again. It is a 21 pin Hornby TXS decoder.

I already assumed that the CV’s would be different for Hornby and I was hoping somebody might have already done the same thing and would know how the Hornby functions could be translated into the Dapol lighting settings.

I have the 130 page Hornby manual, I was just trying to avoid having to read every page.

I do appreciate all the pointers thank you.

[ColinB]

NigC, 96RAF is right so F0 stays the same. In the Dapol instructions where it says F1 use F21, similarly F2 use F22, F3 use F23 and F4 use F24. Now on some decoders the last two functions don't always have proper drivers but I assume the Hornby one does, so F22 and F23 might not work. I have two of these locos one with factory fit decoder to drive the smoke unit and the other one I fitted a LokSound decoder. So I know the lights work with a different decoder.

[Fishmanoz]

Mods, could you please delete Non Hornby from the title and insert Dapol Class 59.

Then it can be found again more easily if someone is looking.

[Kev C]

This is interesting to me as I have a Dapol Class 59 and deciding what decoder to use . I would like sound and if the HM7000 can work it would be near half the cost of a Loksound .

I have noted the issues around the lighting functions but does it run well ? i would be interested to know what folks experiences are .

[Fishmanoz]

To my simple mind, we have a fundamental problem here which people have been talking around but failing to address directly.

The requirement - as stated in para 8 of the Dapol instructions, a 6-function decoder is required to use all lighting effects.

The problem - the HM7000 decoders (18 and 21 pin) are 4-function decoders with 2 additional low-level outputs.

Consequently:

• you can operate the lighting assigned to F0-F3 in Dapol Table 2 using the functions associated with HFO1-4 in the manual copied by RAF
• you cannot operate the lighting assigned to F4 and F5 in Dapol Table 2 as HM7000 does not have HFOs for these
• unless (a very big unless) - the low level output 3.3v HFOs 5 and 6 can operate F4 and F5. I suggest this is unlikely as these will be looking for 12-15 volts to operate them at a higher current.

Does that make the situation clearer?

PS. This doesn’t answer Kev’s “how does it run” question. Maybe @NigC can answer that as he has it running including sound with an HM7000, just the lighting problem.

[ColinB]

I am sure it runs ok, the Dapol class 59 has pickups on all wheels so the chances of it not are miniscule. The sound quality will be different though.

[Fishmanoz]

The question will be whether it runs well with HM7000 out of the box, or needs an auto-calibrate to be done (simple button press), or maybe a more in-depth PID adjustment. Both auto-calibrate and PID described in the manual.

[NigC]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

First of all, I can confirm that the loco runs fine with the HM7000 decoder in. All sounds work in accordance with the profile, which is the profile for Class 66 (as there is not yet one for class 59).

I have been trying various combinations of the functions (F0 and F21-24). I can get different lighting effects working with various combinations, although can only get the cab light on work at one end via F23.

My problem is that F0 is not providing directional lights. F0 is currently giving red lights at No.1 end when going forward with no lights at No.2 end, when reversing no lights at No.1 end, but headlights on No.2 end.

I am thinking this is because Dapol seem to use 2 separate functions (one for each end of the model). F0 for one end, and F1 for the other. I would like them to work conventionally (directional white/red) on F0, but I don’t mind them being split to 2 functions as long as I can get them to work in sync with the direction.

Of course F1 on the HM7000 decoder is for the sound on/off so I can’t use that, and having waded through the 130 page manual, all I can ascertain is that the decoders don’t allow remapping, although it is possible to change CV’s.

So, I am open to any suggestions how I can get basic directional lights (aligned with direction), on F0, with cab lights on a separate function. Please 😊

[96RAF]

I think you need to delve deeper into the Imperium paperwork as the bit you have shown suggests the cab lights are dependant upon directional lighting and dip switch positioning. I guess there are some Imperium CVs that flip the logic in the loco to get all the lighting ducks in a row and if set these would read across to the TXS decoder. Historically Dapol haven’t been terribly good with instructions, but usually someone susses out how to do things.

[Fishmanoz]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head Nigc. If the loco is expecting non-standard directional lighting functions across F0/F1, I can’t see how you can get an HM7000 to operate them with only F0 available for that functionality.

As I said on the previous page, the loco requires 6 functions for all lighting effects and HM7000 only has 4.