Turbomotive (project for GoWest?)

[96RAF]

This is a proposal for GoWest. I know he is always looking for inspiration for another masterclass of his engineering.

I watched a video of a live steam Gauge 1 Turbomotive and thought to myself, I know a man who could do that in OO.

To add to the challenge the bigger (gas-fired) model was powered by turbines not pistons.

A good few engineering quirks to resolve Ken, such as you can’t run a steam turbine in both directions, so you need a fwd turbine and a reversing turbine. Then you need a red/rev selectable gearbox and other drive train elements to get the turbine revs better matched to road speed, etc, etc.

Now you are going to tell me you already made one years ago.

[LTSR_NSE]

In model form would you need 2 separate turbines?

Could you not simply use a fwd/rev selection gearbox? (i.e. a DCC/radio controlled variant of that used by clockwork powered locos.)

[96RAF]

The Gauge 1 model used a fwd running only Tesla turbine but you could have a reversing valve to redirect the steam, with a main multi-disk turbine for fwd and a simpler twin-disk low power turbine for rev.

A servo controlled reversing gearbox is another possibility.

[gowest1707822480]

Hi Rob

I’m still here not dead yet and trust you are well such a shame when old railway model railway enthusiasts depart us like my dear friend J H who got me on live steam and was always interested in my latest project but back to your question hasn’t this been done with full size steam locomotives? I think I have seen something about turbines gas and steam? But not sure I want to go down that road as for me a steam engine is a steam engine with pistons and steam being applied to both sides of a piston.

I think it would depend on how many blades what diameter and what steam boiler pressure is needed and what gear box may be a simple type like on an out board motor or many drive a generator and use an electric motor for the final drive

I have a build just started of a GWR 2800 2-8-0 which would make a great model in live steam and once again a challenge so quite busy still.

[96RAF]

Hi Ken

All well here thanks.

There are (were) a couple of turbine full size designs (Swedish and British). The 1 gauge model used a Tesla turbine which doesn’t have blades, it has a stack of closely spaced discs (like inside a computer hard drive) with the steam pressure directed between them at the outer diameter, and the steam exhausting in the centre. How well that would scale down to 00 I have no idea.

A but like a centrifugal compressor on an aircraft engine but inside out. The aircraft engine air enters more or less central and is centrifuged outwards.

[gowest1707822480]

Hi Rob

looked at the video hard to believe just plain metal discs could be spun up to such high speeds in 00 gauge I can’t see it working as the surface area would be too small and would lead to lack of contact resulting in poor or no power

the more airfoil section blades that as you know are in aircraft jet engines could be a better bet or like in a car turbo very simple still turning at high speed with a reduction gear box like you I had the chance to see the engine room on a type 42 frigate with its Concord engine sitting in what I can only describe as a small shed but when full power was applied the ship could reach something like 45 knots

Back to your ideas another problem would be to generate enough steam pressure as 30 psi is the highest with out boiler certification and volume might be a problem how much water can be carried and how long would it run the turbine run for?

having a 3D printer parts could be produced for a test model but will shelve this one for now and continue with a steam version of the GWR 2-8-0

but who knows?

[96RAF]

All technicolour dreams so far Ken, but you never know.

Paddle wheel with the low pressure steam going back into the super-heater . . .

[96RAF]

Just for your entertainment Ken.

Charcoal fire with fan blower to keep the heat up for the 5C psi boiler, which looks like stainless steel.

It seems to be a simple steam jet impinging it on a ‘paddle wheel’ drive.

[gowest1707822480]

Rob

just seen the video of the turbine engine

I don’t check out the forum much these days but hearing the turbine in the video it is turning very fast and is why he is making reference to the bearings not lasting long but a car turbo have plain bearings but have a good oil flow to keep them cool and well oiled he could add ball type bearings and add a casing to the turbine The pressure is 50 psi and the gearing must be high as the speed reflects the difference between turbine sound and the speed traveled, could a feed pump or injector be added to keep up the water level in the boiler I have a 7.25in engine that with steam pressure down to 35 psi the injectors still work and gas might be cleaner and be a more reliable fuel.

I wonder what might be if the turbine drove a dynamo a speed controller then a dc motor? Still all very interesting and I think from the way the guy speak it’s a test bed and he will be making changes to his design to make it even better great to see what others have achieved well done to him.

[gowest1707822480]

Just to add has the fact that Hornby have just made an LMS turbine model in 00 gauge which looks great made you think of a live steam model?

[96RAF]

Yes it was Ken. Listening to the Hornby TXS decoder turbine sound made me go looking for if anyone had done a live steam version and of course they had.

As there aren’t many real turbine locos to record from I reckon the Hornby sound must be a library recording of a 50/60s aircraft jet engine, maybe a turboprop.

As you say the extra pressure and the ultra-high rpm make it a difficult project.