Can a scale actually die?

[Peachy]

I got this comment on my YouTube channel @PeachyTT120 recently;

”TT is what it always was, a total and complete DEAD-END. Want detail…? Choose OO/. Want to squeeze a lot in….? Choose N/Z……. TT will soon decompose into a minoritity interest - AGAIN. A waste of money.”

Ok, so this is just someone’s opinion & which of course they have the right to express, one that I don’t particularly agree with but that’s by the by.

And yes, who knows, the record sell out of some of the products brought out (the blue 08 & various oil tankers) may not be enough to save Hornbys future.

But it got me thinking, can a scale actually die?

I met some dyed in the wool TT 3mm guys at a local show who love the fact that TT120 has arrived. They had 3 different scratch build/3d printed panniers using 1:120 scale Blink Boney chassis with DCC!

[Tony57]

Hi

Interesting question, The answer is no most scales have been around for years, Triang introduced a TT gauge in the Sixty's but gave up production but it taken up by the cottage industry so was kept going.

The question is more how long will Hornby support the scale by producing new rolling stock items on a regular basis as well as producing current track all the time and new track pieces, will they commit to a long term plan?

The same can be asked about all the brands in the group (thinking of the international brand range)

[Topcat1707821625]

With railway modelling, as with anything else, I think it's a case of cutting your coat to suit your cloth. If I had vast amounts of space and large amounts of money I would model in O gauge, because that would suit my big fat hands. Personally I think N gauge is ridiculous as many of the features are vastly oversized, from the width of the wheels to the handrail knobs. I would only consider it if I had a really limited amount of space. OO gauge is probably the best choice for many modellers, especially if you are buying second-hand, as I mostly do. It's just a shame it's not a true scale and a pity that virtually no British rolling stock is available in HO.

I can imagine that TT120 will become popular over the next few years and second-hand TT120 stuff will become more common.

[Yelrow]

TT, all but did in uk, for some time. It was only thanks to Simon, who was like a dog with a bone, that you have it now. He, was then thanked with Retirement. It is very big in europe, and no doubt, this helped its launch. I dont think any scale can die. Z has slowed down, as become costly for younger guys, and too fiddly for older ones. I have every scale except T, as dependant on where i lived, what i could run. Very spoilt here, as have ample space for anything. Even 0 gauge clockwork. Would like, 0 gauge, instead of 00, as now very good product.

[LTSR_NSE]

…have ample space for anything. Even 0 gauge clockwork. Would like, 0 gauge, instead of 00, as now very good product.

 

 

I wonder if modern O gauge models would fit/run on coarse scale track? If they did, with HM7000’s Bluetooth control (& power supplied to decoder from batteries) the ‘dead track’ would be no issue!

 

 

Considering Tornado & Prince of Wales are effectively 1:1 models… I think that shows no scale can actually die - they just gain or lose popularity!

[Yelrow]

LT&SR. I would be quite happy to buy 0 gauge peco track, if i could sell enough 00. Easy in uk, but harder in France.

[ellocoloco]

The only scale I can think of that might have actually died out is US OO on 19mm track. Lionel pre-war.

But no doubt someone will pop up and show what they did in that scale last week!

[Rana Temporia]

Does anyone still model narrow gauge at 5.5mm to the foot using 12mm gauge track? It was quite popular using Triang TT mechanisms and there was a range of kits by GEM I think?

[The son of Triangman]

Yes some scales have died out. TT very nearly did, Tri-ang gave it a good try in the past and until Simon K decided to give it another go it was a minority scale.

[John-L]

A scratchbuilder can model in any scale, so it’s not possible to ‘kill’ a scale in real terms.

However it is certainly possible for a scale to die in commercial terms. Triang TT 3mm scale is dead, and has been for over 60 years in commercial terms. No new commercially available RTR models in all that time, and the arrival of British TT 120 has surely made it impossible to ever return as an RTR proposition - there had been rumours of a Rapido TT 3mm model a few years back.

[Rallymatt]

TT3 never went away as such. Tri-ang TT3 hadn’t been made since the 60’s and yet there is good support for the TT3 scale. TT:120 is something completely different, that a few stubbornly refuse to educate themselves to. HO isn’t OO either! 🤣

TT:120 has been strong in parts of Europe since its introduction and in past 20 years getting much stronger. Hornby getting into this scale is not the same as the old Triang days where they were trying to create their own scale, TT:120 has global appeal because it’s an International Standard. Don’t forget Hornby has been in TT:120 via Arnold for some years now. Real enthusiasts seem to be really excited by TT:120 even if it’s not for them.

[John-L]

And yes, who knows, the record sell out of some of the products brought out (the blue 08 & various oil tankers) may not be enough to save Hornbys future.

 

 

It easy to forget that Hornby are also investing heavily in OO models. These new TTA tank wagons are both TT and OO scale releases, and it looks like the 21t mineral is also due to be a TT and OO release (Hornby effectively replacing some of the last of the old Hornby Triang models in the range).

Hornbys future is more tied to the future of the hobby than it is to the models in their range imo.

They have a bigger selection of models than any of their competitors, and cruicially Hornby also have a good range of prices. Models from pocket money toys all the way up to expensive finescale models.

The competition doesn’t have that breadth, so as the demographics continue to move against model making as a hobby, I’d wager that Hornby are better positioned than the other UK railway manufacturers.

[81F]

I think if the question was "Can a scale die commercially" then the answer is yes although that doesn't mean it is totally extinct. TT3 being the example quoted above. However, a certain part of it can like British HO scale and the way that has floundered as far as mass produced RTR.

However, anything can happen, just look at 009. Until very recently it was very much a minority without much hope of going mainstream with no rtr models and a mixture of kits.

Now Bachmann and PECO both make enough rtr material to build up a decent railway

[Rallymatt]

Thinking further on from Chris’s original proposition, and specifically in relation to TT:120. Because 1:120 scale is not specific to UK or one manufacturer means it’s highly improbable to just disappear, as a manufactured scale it’s pretty safe. The current UK ranges in this scale have created some protection for themselves by being part of a wider market. If Hornby ceased to exist or walked away from TT:120, the likes of Tillig, Roco, Piko, Peco or A N Other would purchase the tooling and continue.

[Peachy]

If Hornby ceased to exist or walked away from TT:120, the likes of Tillig, Roco, Piko, Peco or A N Other would purchase the tooling and continue.

 

 

Good point, well made.

[Peachy]

So has anyone been following TMC - The Model Centre FB polls? 

A couple of thousand got involved with the “what do you model” and predictably 00 came out on top with 57% of the vote. N followed a fair bit behind with 15% but then where was ‘0’?

Well at 5% it was behind both 9 & 120 who both clocked up 8%!!!! 

1:120 a dead end? I don’t think so. 

[RB51]

Hadn’t realised they had a FB page, so thanks for that. R-

[Rallymatt]

I know a lot of people don’t do FarceBook (me included) how this would alter the results is … anyone’s guess. The negativity towards particular scales is being driven by a few who want to use the hobby as cash cow; we are all railway modellers the gap between the rails really is not important. Chris I know you do your thing because you are a genuine enthusiast, not to pay the mortgage, I’m a hapless idiot on you tube playing trains and making stuff. Like every hobby there will be a moment of levelling and the chancers and spivs will move on to the next con. We will still be having fun 😁