Building My Own Live Steam King

[Go_West]

Hi live steamers

thought if OK with Hornby might put a little bit from time to time at the work in building a GWR King?

Not sure how this will work out might just end up as scrap as its best to build the engine first and write about after but doing it this way means showing the problem up front and may be you reading this might have some ideas better than me.

the point to start a rebuild is always the main drivers that carries the connecting rods from the cross heads and piston rods. A new set of drivers and axles were bought in black as per GWR paint work. The middle axle with the small bevel gear then had 2 bearings fitted which I have done on most of my rebuilds to give better wear and running as in the picture here.

next will be to make the axle housing for the above as the drawing and it is hoped to build this into the frames of the ready build brass King model./media/tinymce_upload/d74bbf79e6d6567768e52c578b6c1114.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/766211a17cc3d8d480cbe328e8e61435.jpg

[walkingthedog]

Thanks Gowest, keep it coming, real modelling. What is the bevelled gear for?

[Go_West]

Hi WTD

if it helps with this job of building a gwr King it may be helpful to see what some of the components are and how the all work together as you say what is the gear in the photo no doubt others may ask about what does what and why so let's start right at the begging with these pictures of the A3 Flying Scotsman and it's working parts I hope this works?

We start with tender and follow on with the engine which I hope you can see the bevel gear that is the start of the valve timing from the centre driving axle and will give inlet and exhaust.

/media/tinymce_upload/948ad4720c2bc85e072439fd57d25a80.jpg

/media/tinymce_upload/a8ca7ba0350fa8a4ec560308ae41094c.jpg

[RDS]

Yes, interesting - looking forward to the next stages.

[walkingthedog]

Thanks Gowest. That makes things very clear. 

[Go_West]

hi all

Have done a drawing of the servo unit layout so this will give some idea as to what happens when driving the engine

I will be taking  a poor old FS to bits for some of the parts which are no longer spares still always able to rebuild back into a Flying Scot if this don't work out for a king?

It was bought for this convertion as a non runner so not a lot of money.

The problem with this engine was that the 4 screws holding the supper heater were all loose and steam was just leaking away From under the gasket. After tightening them it ran ok and looks like it has not done much work.

This is one of the early Hornby FS engines so will change the valve block which you can still get as a spare which on later engines were chrome plated.

have left out the electronics side of this part but can cover it if you want.

/media/tinymce_upload/914b0c17da09135ff0aafa24edbd08d3.jpg

[walkingthedog]

It really is a clever bit of engineering. Thanks again. 

[Go_West]

Putting the axle parts together as this part looks straight forward but saying that alway proves to be not that easy some times you get the odd problem Picture here is the part finished axle housing it needs some fixing holes and filing to the final shape.

/media/tinymce_upload/4ab48146c9bc1715b7409f91d87dce8b.jpg

The next part is to assemble the new housing and wheels all together and work out how these will fit in the chassis.

part of the housing has to filed away to expose the small bevel gear as in the picture below with the new Hornby black wheels

/media/tinymce_upload/cedc63763f4e51038f784e9212a3d89e.jpg

Now with the chassis filed out to take the new axle housing the next part of the gear chain is the larger bevel gear that mates with the small axle gear and its bearing block. For this the chassis was filed down with 2 slots and 2 brass blocks silver soldered in place so that 4 holes can be drilled  and threads can be made in thsee blocks to fix this gear assembley to as in the picture below, note also the springs in the rear axle box area this model when made had all 6 wheels on spring but for us only the front and rear axles will be sprung as we need to keep good tooth contact at all times with the middle set of drivers. The axle boxes for these wheels were only just under size for the Hornby axles so we're opened out to fit.

/media/tinymce_upload/b63af47424ba6722581ff284596bab46.jpg

[walkingthedog]

Looking good.  More please. 

[Go_West]

Hi WTD

can see a problem just around the corner this will be with the front bogie in that even using the Hornby A3 wheels which are smaller than the ones with the model they hit on the inside of the cylinders so will cause shorts and derailments?

So not sure if we are not heading for the dust bin on this one. Any imput welcome.

Mr Collet had a problem with this assembly and had to fit the axle boxes on the inside and the front wheels axle boxes on the out side, on runs in the early days at speed the front bogie left the track so a change to the springing and shock absorbers was under taken.

[Go_West]

Re bogie wheels

there might be a way round this problem fit the Hornby live steam bogie wheels but turn them down as they are thick and could have .5 mm or more machined off 

also change the pivot point or change to all plastic wheels may be hornby made some wheels years ago that were all plastic?

[Go_West]

We are now at the point of no return so must battle on and hope I can resolve problems as they come up any way I,ve bought 8 coaches in chocolate and cream so all this has got to work?

so its time to turn to the cylinders these are closer to the first set of drivers than on the Flying Scotsman so some major changes.

Having worked out the new position on the frame and change the fixing position that will be used to fix this cylinder assembly on the King chassis so into the mill for the cylinder assembly and mill away the unwanted parts of the cylinder assembly for it to fit in the chassis

/media/tinymce_upload/d425bbfddfb8a3805f1cfac95e30b857.jpg

Once the machining was done then 2 new fixing holes were needed to hold the valve block in place and another 4 new fixing holes to bolt this cylinder assembly to the frames.

but where and how far to drill into this assembly without breaking into the steam passages that run inside this assembly.

I have drawn what I think are the passages in red pen but this is just guess work on the top of the brass cylinder block

Also below you can see 2 of the new fixing holes in the blue area that are needed as the Hornby fixing position were milled away

once drilled the holes in the valve block need to be threaded for 2 new screws

/media/tinymce_upload/ef6d5497d8bde906ddb21c3d5a486438.jpg

[Go_West]

with the cylinder assembly finished and fitted in place within the frames it is the servo unit that need to be looked at. And how this will fit in the frame. It turns out that the frames are not thick enough to take the fixing screws and leaves the unit rattling about within the frames as they are wider apart than the Hornby frames.

This means making up some packing bits of brass angle see picture which will give a better fit and fixing point. /media/tinymce_upload/0c68aa6ea349609e7f9e3c107f284f9a.jpg

The new position was then drilled and fixing holes tapped and screws added job done.

The next part is the valve rod this needs to be cut down by. 7.25mm and re machined for the drive gear and revers unit plus the retainig clip. This is because the cylinders are closer to the first drivers than on the Flying Scotsman. In this picture you can see the flats that give the set position for valve timing and the left hand end has a small under cut with a hole that is for exhaust steam and the tip at this end has a small ear that drives the rotating valve.

/media/tinymce_upload/4285e2ec4f43463534fbc1dc287ea6f9.jpg

[Go_West]

With all the parts that we have now completed to fit the chassis the next small job will be the regulator push rod this also needs to be a little shorter. I would like to thank John Humphrys at hornby with his help in the rebuild of this engine and as many know what a great job he does with the sick engines that turn up at Hornby thanks John.

The electric motor is not at the same angle as in the Hornby engines as the would lead to removing to much of the frames so much so that the back pair of drivers and frames would fall off?

The GWR  locomotive works at Swindon, which invested in a Zeiss custom system for aligning locomotive frames by opticaly setting the position of the horns and axle boxes making them some of the best engineered loco's in the UK 

We are getting close to see some wheels going round with the connecting rods in place so more to come./media/tinymce_upload/e516464f6795146bca6179bfad07297e.jpg

[Go_West]

Just thought with all the frames finished we hope a picture of my 7.25 gauge King showing the front of the frames and the large pressed area to allow the front wheels to move side to side. I have not seen any models that are built like the true engine was. Maybe the new King Hornby are making has this feature.

To me this was an impressive bit of work, parts like this and the back plate and throat plate of the boiler were heated up in a furnace like a large letter box some 12 feet wide and about a1ft high. These steel sheets were about 1" to 1.5" thick once red hot were then moved on chain to the waiting press and would/media/tinymce_upload/dfdd265aed8980c8a5bb2a717cc9bfda.jpg be formed to the required shape.

[Go_West]

So with 75% of the main parts fitted in the frames it was time to connect the engine to a small air compressor and set the valve timing and see if it will run.

The engine was a bit tight  at first but at an.Old engineer I worked with years ago would say " that's just the new ness"

The connecting rods were made from thicker brass than the Hornby one so some small spacers were made up to free up the fitting.

So see it here on its first running with just the middle drivers then later the full set.

[96RAF]

So see it here on its first running with just the middle drivers then later the full set.

 

How good is that - very nice gowest

[walkingthedog]

Absolutely mesmerising.  Would travel at a fair old lick if you put it on the track. It would be mollying along as my dad used to say, and me now. 

 

I know a lot of people take the mick out of the GWR (jealous I guess) but they were outstanding engineers as are you if I may say so. Keep posting the pictures, best thing on this forum. 

[Go_West]

Thanks for the kind words or if my iPad might say kind worms? I should read through the text better as mistakes pop up?

yes  the GWR not everyone's company or as a friend of mine called them the Gas Works Railway or the Great Way Round and.......

LNER the Late and Never Early Railway

S and D Slow and Dirty 

anymore?

[Go_West]

With the first test run complete will look now at the next part that will have to change

/media/tinymce_upload/f0839eec10b34b0a7a700b90f52630b5.jpg

If you put the 2 engines side by side they are about the same length but look again at the cylinders which I have talked about before, on the king they are further towards the cab so keep throwing up little problems if you now look at the picture below the safety valve is right on the end of the foot plate.

/media/tinymce_upload/f6ba310d57c308c0aa3d849455f8288b.jpg

This saftey valve needs to be moved as tight as possible to the motor unit, this will give room in the cab for a crew and at our local model railway show an engine there have a crew in the cab and the firemen was looking out the cab widow up the track as if signal spotting so will try the same thing I hope but that's jumping the gun as still loads to do. Re the safety valve I think I might just cut the copper pipe and make a small brass sleeve and re silver solder. 

[Go_West]

So now that the safety valve copper pipe has been shortened (see picture) and it now sits up tight to the electric motor assembly it's the body that needs to have bits of the inside to be chopped out to give room for the working parts of the engine.

I have also machined down a set of the Hornby live steam front bogie wheels and looks like this idea might work I have also order extra wheels for the Hornby Kings just to see what look the best and fit the best. I don't think that the shorting out problem of the wheels rubbing on the inside of the cylinders will affect this engine as I will not have any electrical connections to the chassis as

 

in the Flying Scotsman./media/tinymce_upload/e1f785e98841c2c32211c9ceb8f6be35.jpg

As the engine is coming together thinking ahead will be what to do with the electronics and in which position will be the best place

for them and to assist this fit maybe remake this part to be a one off for this engine which I have done before.

/media/tinymce_upload/04f2049ddde2b656eed9d6e0475de020.jpg

Picture above is cutting away unwanted brass to fit the completed working chassis into. The fixing points will have to be made to fix the body to the chassis and like the Hornby engines a slot or pin at the cab end and a single screw infront of the cylinder area Looks to be the best way.

Like with the Hornby Flying Scotsman the very front section of the frames will be fixed to the body as it was in the original model with one small screw.

/media/tinymce_upload/16c3d0f6d025e21085211e92bd0c9329.jpg

[walkingthedog]

Think you're getting the hang of it now Gowest. 

[Go_West]

I hope you right WTD

but it's when you say thing like that it all goes wrong like I bought a new whistle to fit this engine as I was not sure if I would need shortening and it might be that after chopping it about it would be of a pitch that all the dogs in the area might drive them made.

This did not happen and all fitted OK all that had to be done was to move its fixing bracket 5mm down the tube. With the saftety valve in position how would it vent with the king engine as the valve is half way down the boiler? This picture is one way that might work

/media/tinymce_upload/5d6d521f383aa4174798ef9097b76546.jpg

/media/tinymce_upload/c60839abd2bf78343758b8363be00582.jpg

The picture above shows the safety valve on the King and the chimney position and the A3 oil screw hole and about how far out it is.

The other thing that will have to be looked at is the oil and exhaust out let screw as it is in the wrong position so once again the picture below shows how this might be achieved 

/media/tinymce_upload/5a239ef820f38cd2a60ae9ce5accc81d.jpg

With all this work to do and to fit it in with all the other jobs I have to do plus keep thinking of what other part need changing might take time to do but keep watching.

[RB51]

Definately going to keep and eye on this Gowest. I couldn't ever undertake anything like it, but it already looks amazing. More when your ready please. R-

[96RAF]

Agreed Rog - proper engineering but under a magnifying glass. Would that I could, but I can't, so I appreciate that others can and they share.