Wheel replacement - which ones?

[Rhino_1]

Hi All,

First time posting, so please be gentle ;)

We have some Railroad Maroon coaches which we would like to replace with metal wheels to get them to run better, but ive noticed in the hornby spares section there are a few different ones to choose from.

We have Items: 4625, 4627, 4629

Can anyone shine any light on the correct wheels we need to replace them with the metal variety?

Cheers and many thanks in advance!

[walkingthedog]

Measure the diameter of the wheels, not to the flanges but to the part that runs on the rails. you need wheels of the same diameter. Only other thing you need to know is do they have spokes(unlikely), holes or are they plain. 

 

My my bet is R8264. 

[VESPA]

Hello and welcome. As WTD says about measurement, but I think they will be 14.1mm non holed  R8218 if they have holes then R8264. They just clip in and out but be careful. There are 10 axles per pack or 2 1/2 coaches.

[walkingthedog]

Thanks Vespa I didn't notice the holes and was going to add R8218. 

[81F]

Hello and welcome. As WTD says about measurement, but I think they will be 14.1mm non holed  R8218 if they have holes then R8264. They just clip in and out but be careful. There are 10 axles per pack or 2 1/2 coaches.

 

I must admit 10 axels in a pack never struck me as sensible

[walkingthedog]

Enough for 5 wagons or 2 coaches with a spare set. 

[81F]

 The problem iwas I just had to but another pack of wheels to finish the rake 3 of coaches off and then two more coaches! SWMBO not impressed!

 

 

 

 

 

[Hazzapj]

Hello all

Can anyone advise on what wheels can I put onto a hornby w4183 carriage I Recently purchased on 'the bay'. Its the metal type carriage but  it hardly  moves. Very stiff like

I tried a drop of the magic stuff on the wheel axles. But still don't run freely 

Maybe it's time for new wheels

 Thanks all and happy rolling

Hazzapj. 

[ColinB]

I recently did a few of my coaches. I was surprised at the ten per pack and the price, but they do run a lot better with the newer wheels. When I was searching around the web, I found Dapol do replacement wheels, as do a couple of private vendors on EBay and they were slightly cheaper. They also do them in packs of four.

[Hazzapj]

Hi Colinb

Yes I saw the dapol ones in packs of 20

I will try those and keep you all posted 

Cheers for now 

hazzapj

[Rana Temporia]

The Dapol ones should be OK but beware of wheels that are meant for HO trains as the axle lengths are often shorter being aimed at the smaller scale (but same gauge). Some HO wheelsets will just fall out of Hornby coaches and wagons. Probably best to check the axle lengths before you buy. 

[ColinB]

Do they quote axle lengths, I have never really noticed. I have recently bought some Dapol wagons as Rails were doing them cheap, I will measure the axles against the Horby ones. I have a ton of old Hornby coaches and wagons I want to change the wheels on so it will be quite useful. I think Hornby and Dapol generally are about the same as is Bachmann OO.

[81F]

 I do wonder if the Dapol axels might be fractionally longer as I've noticed  Hornby wheels run a lot smoother and seem a little looser in Dapol wagons.

[Wingman1707821865]

I realise this is an old thread but here goes, when I was a kid many years ago I had a 225 with mk4 coaches. I decided I'd like to recreate that set up and duly purchased a driver and trailing unit along with 3 mk4 carriages, the noise from these things was terrible as none of the wheels were round and wobbled all over the place. I replaced them with new Hornby 14.1 metal wheels but unfortunately they now derail at the drop of a hat, I figure my track must have a few undulating parts that don't agree with the thinner wheels and smaller flanges, why don't Hornby make their new all metal wheels to the same spec as the wheels they're supposed to replace?

[LTSR_NSE]

@Wingman - (I believe that) the 90’s era rolling stock, including original 225 mk4 coaches, used 12.6mm wheels. (I also believe) the 14.1mm wheels are purely for the newer more detailed coaches made from 2000s onwards.

If this is correct, then you haven’t used an intended replacement, & by unintentionally altering wheel diameters they may well be interfering with the bogies’ ability to turn correctly through curves & points.

Flanges of all modern models have been reduced, to better reflect scale accuracy, unfortunately requiring better quality, flatter track laying skills from modellers.

I am perfectly willing to remove this post if my memory is at fault!

[Going Spare]

I am sure LT&SR_NSE is correct, the smaller diameter wheels were factory-fitted throughout the ringfield-motored class 91, Mk4 coaches and DVT.

[81F]

Just a thought, are you running on the original track? If yes that could be the issue as I believe the new wheels are made to the more modern finer standards so are great for keeping old stock running on new track.

[Wingman1707821865]

Thankyou for the replies, I received no notification that there were any replies, is there a setting you have to tweak on here? The original wheels measured 13.25mm and 15.25 mm across the flange, I went for the 14.1 mm replacement wheels as opposed to the 12.6 mm as I thought the larger ones would offer more stability and that was just as well as that was the only size my local model shop had in. They did unfortunately catch on the boggy but only just and a little trimming soon sorted that out, luckily they didn't catch on the underside of the carriage. I have since fitted some smaller 12.6 mm Dapol wheels but they act in a similar manor with derailments being very frequent. I guess I'm a bit of a heathen when it comes to track spec as I didn't know there was old and new track, the track was all bought new about 5 years ago but that doesn't mean it was new stock from the supplier. All my track is on Woodland Scenics Foam Trackbed so if a length of track isn't perfectly flat it would be very hard make it so without complete removal of that section. There must be lots of aging carriages out there that could do with new wheels so I can't think why Hornby don't produce wheels to the same spec as the old ones, that would save a lot of time and effort getting the setup to run as it did on the old wheels and they'd sell thousands of 'em. I've gone back to the old wheels now, they may be noisy and a little wobbly but I can leave it running all day if I want with no derailments. Thanks for your advice and suggestions.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Wingman - unfortunately this forum doesn’t (yet) have notifications, therefore regular checking of posts is currently the only way to discover replies. (We have been advised that they are a feature of an upgrade that will occur at some point, but no timescale on that just yet.)

Regarding your layout - what is the track’s foam underlay attached to/sitting on? If it isn’t a firm surface (e.g. a baseboard) or not flat/level then the underlay will be much more pliable/forgiving than track itself, & potentially causing derailment issues. However if the underlay is on a firm, level surface then it shouldn’t be causing these.

[Wingman1707821865]

The main layout is on 25mm chipboard supported liberally by 3x2" timber joists running under it, it's rock solid but I don't use that section to run the 225 and mark4 carriages as it's not large enough. The 225 and mark4 carriages run around the circumference of the loft, the foam and track run on 3x2" timber that is screwed to the purlins, it's perfectly straight, level and solid. The problem is most likely the track itself that may have slight deviations that is being picked up by the narrower wheel width and smaller flanges of the newer type wheels. I've refitted all the old wheels and the 225 has been dragging round 8 mark4 carriages and the dummy rear unit at a reasonable pace none stop for the last 3 hours without one derailment so I'll settle for that. It would have been nice to have been able to replace the old wheels with new ones but I'm not prepared to start ripping up track to facilitate that, I had thought of turning them down a little to give a larger flange but that would still leave them with narrower wheels and I couldn't figure out a way of holding the insulated wheels in the lathe without damaging them. If some 3rd party company was to bring out all metal wheels the same spec as the old plastic axle/wheel with metal rims I think they'd make a killing. Thanks for all the advice.

[Wingman1707821865]

Well I came up with an answer to my problem and that was fitting the 225 dummy carriage wheels to all the MKIV coaches, and it worked out marginally cheaper than using the newer 14.1 or 12.6 wheels that made the carriages derail. The dummy car wheels are closer to the original wheel dimensions than the newer ones and the carriages don't jump the tracks anymore so that's me happy. I noticed that a lot of my other carriages are fitted with the newer type wheels but for what ever reason they give no derailing problems so it must be somehow down to the design or extra length of the Mk4 carriages.

[LTSR_NSE]

Which DVT wheels did you use? (90s version or modern ones)

Do you have a part no. in case others wish to do the same?

[Wingman1707821865]

These are the ones I ordered : Wheel Set Dummy Unit Class 43 (X9861), to be honest I didn't know there was a new version of the  HST 125/225 (I don't get out much 😁) The spec is somewhere between the original wheels and the new type but the wheels are wide enough and the flanges deep enough to stop the derailing on my MK4 coaches.

[LTSR_NSE]

Thanks for info - glad you found a solution. 👍

In case you aren’t aware the 125 HST (Class 43 locos) is a completely different model to the 225 (Class 91 loco & DVT) - hence the different wheels.

Edited February 23 by LTSR_NSE

[Wingman1707821865]

Yes! Now I've got the 125 out of the drawer and placed along side the 225 I see they are quite different, I had it in my head that the 225's were just revamped 125's but I see they have similarities but definitely not the same.