Troubleshooting Zero 1

[DocYoung]

Hi folks

Just starting again after 20 years. I have a Zero 1 system - I know there will be hands held up in horror but there is not an option to upgrade for time being.

Thing is I am experiencing difficulty getting motors to run. I have by passed the track and using wires directly to locos. No 1 seems to run ok - some of the time, but others are refusing to budge.

Any way to check what signal is being sent from master controller?

I see that the case is rivetted together so I am guessing that gaining access to clean, check the innards is not possible.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Davjan]

Hi Doc

The usual problem is the keyboard keys.

MERG (model Electronic Railway Group ) do a replacement keyboard kit that you can install yourself if good at soldering.

However you have to be a member or know somebody who is.

David

[DocYoung]

Thanks David

Just done some testing and the loco with no 1 chip running fine, but no matter what else I key in, it is just that loco that works, which suggests that the keyboard is the issue.

So how do you open up the case?

 

 

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Try testing without the wires by testing the two 'Track' connectors at 18V at the rear.

Also test the 'Accessories' connections which should give 16V.

 

The only way to dismantle this thing from memory and checking my friend's unit is to loosen the clips at the underside of the unit at the front. Be careful though as not to force it as I remember a friend snapping some clips on his many years back. The top should lift away and you may also have to prise the casing away from the hollow rivetting around the sides near the base of the unit.

I don't remember any screws and the rubber feet it has on its base have no purpose other than to stop the unit sliding during use so no hidden screws under those.

 

The case for a damaged keyboard or non working one is OK but I would rather suspect a dry joint.

In these cases it is perfectly safe to spray the soldered joints with a fine coat of WD40 and leave for a short time (minutes) before dabbing off. This sometimes cures these things but, again, be careful as too much will be harder to dab away. Don't spray the components though... this is purely for the board.

 

If any capacitors are blown you'll notice immediately by the tops of them being rounded or blown out. They should be completely flat.

 

None of this may help but at least it is a starting point. I'm reluctant to take mine apart as it is still in working order and won't jinx the thing!

There are folk around who can fix this for you but costs may deter one. There's also a supply of used and working ones around the web at very low prices if you can't fix yours.

 

If you do get it open test the membrane for the keyboard too as this may have some ware on it where the contacts may be made...

[RDS]

@DocYoung

Welcome to the Forum.  Please use the white box at the bottom to post replies, not the Blue icon with a white arrow as this just puts your text on a yellow backgound and that is used for quoting part of a previous post.

When you say No 1 runs, do you mean Loco No 1?

If you are referring to Loco numbers, have the Loco's been serviced, following the 20 year gap?

It is not recommended to start opening the case of the controller, unless you are well qualified to do so.  The fault is more likely to be with the Loco, than the controller if it worked well when it was put away.

[DocYoung]

Hi RDS

Locs all work fine, I have tested them (removed chip and run on DC)

With Loco 1, it doesnt matter what is keyed in, Loc 1 runs.

Funnily enough, I had started testing three of locos straight from the controller and had them running and then they just stopped.

Went back to basics. Set up a circuit on DC, with non chipped locos and then when that working connected up controller. 

Had loco 1 running for about 20 mins.

The yellow error light comes on a lot when keying in other locos and cannot be cleared unless switched off and on.

My thoughts are that keypad is the fault and would have opened up if there had been easy access.

For the record, I have built my own PC back in the day so a bit familiar with internal gubbins of techi things.

[DocYoung]

Thanks AugustusCaesar

I'll have another look at casing as I didnt see any clips or obvious means of dismantling.

If I get in I will follow your other suggestions. I am not averse to installing a new keypad, but balk at MERG's joining fee and annual subscription.

Cheers

[2e0dtoeric]

As your loco's have been sitting in a box for 20 years, I'd start by cleaning and lubricating the mechanism and motor bearings! Oil goes thick and gluey after a while. (Especially if you previously used 3 in 1!)

Also, are the wheels and pick-ups clean? I believe that Zero 1 is very fussy about that.

Next - the track - is that clean? As it is 20 years old, it may well be steel track - steel goes rusty! Are the rail joiners really joining the rails, or just vaguely holding them in place? Is ALL the track 'live', when the power is turned on?

[DocYoung]

See above. 2e0dtoeric.

Peco nickel silver rails.Spent a lot of time cleaning! Locos tested and running on test bed.

Suffice to say I did all the obvious stuff before coming onto forum.

[zeroOneman]

I don't use my zero one unit any more - it's yours if you want it

[2e0dtoeric]

Ah, missed your post at 1727 because I was typing my comment!

[DocYoung]

That's very kind.

How much?

[DocYoung]

I guessed as much 2eOdtoeric

Thanks any way.

[zeroOneman]

just the cost of postage - it's no use to me any more & they don't sell for much on evilBay. 

contact the forum admin & ask for my email address.

 

If you're anywhere near Gatwick/Brighton you could always pick it up.

Now where the hell is it...

[DocYoung]

Smashing,

Cant say fairer than that zeroOneman.

Now all I have to do is see how to catch the eye of the forum admin chappie/chapess

[Chrissaf]

Doc,

The best way to facilitate this request is......see in zeroOneman's reply above. The one where he says "contact admin", click the "Report" button. Then, in the pop-up text box, ask Admin to forward your forum registered email address to him, siting the reply you are 'reporting' as his pre-agreed permission for that to happen. Forwarding your mail address to zero1 is more palatable to admin than them sending his mail address to you. As you are making the request relating to the mail address you own.

.

Note: ComMod's have no visibility of forum members personal details such as mail addresses. Only admin can facilitate the request. Admin have previously stated that it is something they will do, subject to both parties agreement, and that the request is to facilitate a benefit to a forum member. In other words, selling for profit and personal gain using this method will not be accepted as a valid reason.

[zeroOneman]

while I wait for an email to come flooding in, I thought I'd just mention that the initial outlay for DCC put me off for a long time. I finally took the plunge last february - to convert just two locos & get one point motor operating under DCC I paid the handsome price of £135. This was by using an elink & my PC. Looking at ebay this morning, I reckon you could achieve the same for under £100 now. search the web for "dcc on a budget" if you're interested.

[DocYoung]

email sent last night zeroOneman

And thanks for info. 

[zzpjl8]

Hi, Fantastic the way this has worked out. As an original user for 25 years of Zero 1 , its legacy being Elite in same colour scheme, and ease of use, please have my feedback.

My original unit required a replacement mother board, as during a layout redesign and movement, I managed to connect one wire to the track feed and the other to the accessory output, and pop went something.

it was repaired by the Hornby agent in Australia. The rivets have to be drilled out, and when it came back to me, small screw and nut had been used. This worked out well, as during the 25 year period, the keyboard mat underneath the keys needed replacing twice.

So once you have your "new" unit, you may wish to take a look inside the old one. Of course you will not have it plugged in after you have removed the rivets, as the trannie sits inside there.

When you remove the lid, tilt it towards you. There are a few small teeth along the lower front edge. They are robust, but dont try and pull upwards. It simply swings open. But take a peek from behind as you do, as there are a flat set of wires on a cable that 'engage' into the keyboard. Note the orientation and pull out. With the lid off, the keyboard is held from memory by a few small screws, and the mat can simply be swapped over. The mat is made of rubber, but had small metal bits on the bottom, which touched onto the citcuit board which transmitted the key commands. It was these small metal bits which wore out.

I have almost all the Zero 1 service bulletins somehere. If Hornby can no longer supply (production afterall did stop in 1985!), then contact the admin and I will go hunting for them and scan and send to you.

For the future, just remember, that when you finaly decide to move to DCC, all you will have to do is replace your track connections. I never had droppers on Zero 1 and had a layout 30 feet long... and the same with Elite and DCC. Enjoy, regards Nick

[96RAF]

Inside the Elite the keys are essentially similar to the Zero-1 - just triangular bits of clicky metal that press on contacts on the PCB when the plastic key is pressed. These tirangular bits are only held in place against displacement by sellotape.

 

I have often wondered if these could be replaced by proper tactile switches that would still fit under the keys.

 

Maybe this could possibly be a long term fix for the Zero-1 keypad problem.

[aussie 1]

Master Control Access is simple. Get a hot soldering iron and push the rivets through, leaves a hole that can be either zip tied, bolted etc once you finish.  Open the case by separating at the back, lift the top away from the base and push the top towards the front of the body. The front of the case is held in by interlocking plastic lugs. The keypad is held in place with 4 small phillips screws and 5 plastic spring clips. Two of the screws are under the ribbon cable, don't miss taking them out, easy to hold the cable away from the screws. Gently lever the forward two spring clips in turn to allow removal of the keyboard printed circuit board. Remove the rubber keypad for cleaning etc.

[96RAF]

Welcome Oz1.

You have replied to a two year old topic. The OP may well be sorted by now and your advice virtually repeats that given by NickB.

[Mr Creature]

/media/tinymce_upload/929749009acb9517f3015d4bf01206cc.jpgInside the Elite the keys are essentially similar to the Zero-1 - just triangular bits of clicky metal that press on contacts on the PCB when the plastic key is pressed. These tirangular bits are only held in place against displacement by sellotape.

 

I have often wondered if these could be replaced by proper tactile switches that would still fit under the keys.

 

Maybe this could possibly be a long term fix for the Zero-1 keypad problem.

 

[Mr Creature]

/media/tinymce_upload/024bbd0cb1432c2cd12a466ec0714564.jpgInside the Elite the keys are essentially similar to the Zero-1 - just triangular bits of clicky metal that press on contacts on the PCB when the plastic key is pressed. These tirangular bits are only held in place against displacement by sellotape.

 

I have often wondered if these could be replaced by proper tactile switches that would still fit under the keys.

 

Maybe this could possibly be a long term fix for the Zero-1 keypad problem.

 

 

[Mr Creature]

/media/tinymce_upload/8b0213b7fa0f4fb3f7fc7e185a295998.jpg

/media/tinymce_upload/ebed68636518b262dfc9fe1cedb7b29e.jpg