Is selling model railways and models viable as a business anymore?

[Bulleidboy]

I too have bought countless items on Ebay, and never had a problem. I agree that it is nice to be able to see what you are buying before you actually purchase the item, but many towns no longer have a shop selling model railway items. In my town we are lucky in having two, one in one of the old town streets (not the modern precinct), and one in a small modern industrial unit, which is out of town and rather off the beaten track, but carries a vast amount of stock - I suppose being "out of town" means that rents are cheaper. As Rallymatt says "You pays your money and takes your choice" - at then end of the day you make the decisions.

[ellocoloco]

An old but never the less interesting post.

@BB apart from the rent/rates of a model shop in an industrial estate, its probably a much more secure location, both in terms of being able to secure the premises - its more than likely a steel box without windows - and the customers are ones that have made an effort to go to you and are not open to the dreggs that so often populate the high streets. I have just finished work and go on holiday tomorrow. My last job this afternoon was making yet another shoplifter DVD and waiting on hold to 101 to report it. Many traditional model shops will likely be single operator set ups and won't be able to have the 16 cameras at my disposal along side bodycams, headsets and panic alarms. Another benefit of being on an industrial estate is there will usually be parking close to the premises which is very important as many in our hobby are older and (from my experience at exhibitions) not that physically fit.

@ntpntpntp - you lucky man, having a go to model shop only 30 miles away! I'm also a continental guy - HO - and used to use MacKay Models in Paisley, unfortunately closed around 20 years ago. It was 60 miles from home. There is no where else in Scotland I can think for HO that interests me. I have a shop 40 miles away for decoders, track and scenic accessories, but other than that its Ebay - the best model shop on the planet! sunglasses

[SteveM6]

My last job this afternoon was making yet another shoplifter DVD and waiting on hold to 101 to report it.

 

 

ElLoco, I feel your pain. I suspect we are in a similar line of work. I have just got back from hols - three days in and five police reports later including an arson attack on a local toilet that had been ‘requisitioned’ by an addict/shoplifter, and I am ready for another break!

Regarding reports - gave up on 101 years ago. But I now do all my reports online via my local police website. A full report takes less than ten minutes whereas on 101 you are still wading through the menus after that time.

I can recommend it.

[ColinB]

My local model shop is in an Industrial estate, the guy that runs it used to have a High Street shop. He says rates are far less and two units up is a security firm so he has no issues with people breaking in. Trouble is he generally charges recommended retail and then complains nobody buys locos off him, although funnily he is quite competitive for rolling stock.

[Bulleidboy]

I think the problem with your local shop Colin and one of mine, is that being on an industrial estate or small business park, is that there is no "passing" as my mother-in-law used to describe itsmiley. You are either going there for a purpose, but you will not be walking past and just pop in for a few bits and pieces. Mine is next door to the Vape Shop and the Tattoo Shop (grin) - so although the units are fairly modern - it's a small gated development - it's not the same as being on the high street, so probably does rely to a large degree on "online" sales - and mine does not open at weekendshushed.

[Going Spare]

@Colin

If you are a small retailer, you are more than likely going to receive just one example (if any) of a popular new release loco, so there is little point in offering a discount. As for rolling stock, perhaps it is more a case of the larger retailers offering a smaller discount rather than the smaller retailer offering a larger discount? Loco's may be treated by larger retailers as 'loss leaders' (not absolutely loss-making) in the same way that Hornby price their sets, to attract you and hopefully lead to more business on product with better mark-ups.

[96RAF]

My local model shop is 25 miles away from me, sits on an outer ring road feeder from the city centre on the outskirts of Norwich in a parade of shops just off a roundabout, so it gets some passing trade but most visitors are target shoppers on a model railway buying mission. They have parking out front for a couple of cars and another half dozen down a ramp behind the shop. There is a bus stop right outside the door from the city centre. Pretty much ideal and they are doing well on the trading front with a vast stock in a smallish shop.

[Rallymatt]

I have 3 model shops within 5/6 miles of me, 2 are dedicated model railway, one more diverse and a few local sources of modelling materials. The two model railway shops while friendly to me are becoming increasingly anti TT:120 and have made some outrageous claims about the scale and Hornby. Whilst I would love to help them, I find it hard to spend my money with narrow minded people. The reality is there is nothing they sell that I can’t buy online and usually cheaper.

It’s bizarre to watch businesses talk themselves out of business.

[LTSR_NSE]

20+ years ago there were 2 model shops within 5 miles of me (both with excellent ranges of model railways products - including extensive unboxed/2nd hand displays.)

Now my closest is over 20 miles away & allocations/lack of online selling, mean unfortunately I can almost never give them any custom.

I’ve therefore bought from Gaugemaster, Kernow, Derails, TMC, Bure Valley, Locomotion… basically whoever has stock. (They’ve all provided excellent customer service & I willingly give repeat custom - when it’s possible!)

Most 2nd hand purchases are from eBay (utilising their protection when a seller ‘makes a mistake’) - although occasionally Hattons & Rails have had decent prices!

So (for this Internet buyer) there appears to be quite a reasonable selection of model railway retailers out there - the availability of product seems more of an issue!

I imagine this is an indication that the size of the market is heading in an unhealthy direction - which is why I am delighted by innovations like HM7k & TT:120 (that open up opportunities for market growth.)

[Kim-344602]

I must admit, I am very lucky. There are two model railway shops in town, one dedicated railways and the other a variety of modelling supplies. The second is in an industrial unit within walking distance of the town center and within 100 yds of the big Tesco's. The other is on the high street.

There is also a dedicated model railway shop withing a couple of miles of where we moor our narrowboat and actually canalside so a regular visitor when we go out on the boat. Though I suspect my wife wishes all 3 were not so readily available.

Yes, I might get some things a little cheaper online but without any backup, any support and certainly without the chats and advice.

[VESPA]

Well this is an old thread with the same theme as many before. If you have no, little or poor advertising to get customers will be nigh on impossible. As the thread is from 2019 when locos were about £108, then to try to sell choo choos will be nigh on impossible at £260 at todays rate. I can see prices increasing a lot more as customers find other hobbies such as collecting Ferraris and Lambourghinis which will soon be cheaper than a loco.

[Gary-369794]

Hi

Just my 2 cents on one aspect mentioned.

The internet and google as a means to search for information

Once upon a time google used to be good, find almost anything if it was there.

But last few years because google has followed it's profit through rankings business model to the nth degree, you really can't find stuff out anymore.

I was looking for replacement bulbs for the old Tri-ang colour light signal (same Hornby Dublo) I spent over 2 hours chasing tails. Now maybe supplies of the bulbs have dried up, but maybe not as a specific seller on fleabay still lists them. My understanding is that the Marklin bulb is a direct replacement. But now even the Marklin website has seemingly forgotten about this spare, maybe that's because it has gone LED and digital, not sure.

But the point is, google still remains search engine of choice for many, and if you're not paying it's massive fees, then it will rank you somewhere between the locked door with a sign saying beware the tiger, in the basement at the bottom of a missing staircase, and nothing.

So, any new business starting up is gonna struggle without a large advertising budget.

Guess I'm really saying, we've been courting the very cause of our demise. Google and fleabay and amazon, they dangles the lure of cheap products so we switched allegiance from bricks and mortar retailers, now our high streets are vacant, councils are going bust because of the reduced income from non existent city centre businesses, while out of town business reaps reduced costs but ends up giving us worse service. We think that having the convenience of next day delivery is great, but in the end we're paying for it. All the parcel firms set up have split the delivery market pie up so finely that royal mail have suffered too (and because it's privatised and it's boss taking a massive wedge for themselves)

In my other life, I'm a cyclist (boo hiss) and we have similar moans about shops. And we keep saying to each other

keep the pounds local - support your local bike shop (LBS)

Back when TT120 was officially announced, I had a long chinwag with my local model shop. He basically pulled Hornby apart because it was only selling TT direct which he saw as a further nail in the local shop's coffins. Now Hornby have announced a few select shops can sell it. But who remembers the business model of Hornby Dublo and then Wrenn? They only had limited number of shops authorised to sell their products. And where did they end up compared to Tri-ang as was.

Hornby is catering for the collector now with super super detail models that even adults can't afford in todays economic woes. And having bought up Lima and dozens others, Hornby has a lot less competition now. Time will tell how things go, what policy changes are made now there's been another management change at Hornby.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Gary - I don’t disagree with any of your post, just regarding Lima etc. being bought by Hornby…

This was done as those competitors/owner (were going/had gone) to the wall, as indeed Hornby themselves have been through several iterations & owners.

Therefore whilst the outcome was indeed reduced competition, that was occurring anyway, Hornby simply saw an opportunity to invest in extra toolings & footholds in new markets.

The reduction in competition & diversity between the brands/markets, is arguably one of the reasons Hornby still exists today.

[Rallymatt]

Gary, as a fellow cyclist I know exactly the Local Bike Shop mantra, but sadly in my area (Co Durham) they have all gone. The chains flood the market with poorly made tat (there are some rare exceptions) and specialists sell expensive kit. I run Campagnolo on my race bike so that’s never available locally and a recent Gravel bike was purchased from Ribble on line, because the physical shops don’t have what I want. Ironically the best bike shop near me is a charity, re’cycle y’bike, I donate my excess to them rather than buy stuff.

It’s exactly the same with model railway world. Going TT:120 meant it had to be direct, but when you hear how retailers reacted, the majority didn’t want to stock an unproven scale and said no. Now it’s taken off some are whinging and others are sulking.

The story of retail is you can’t expect customers to buy it just because you sell it. There is so much choice and so many market options, retailers need to become business people first and enthusiasts a close second.

A point on business rates, they are collected locally but it goes to central Govt and values are calculated by the Valuation Office on behalf of Central Govt. Local councils have little influence.

[AndyMac1707817969]

Absolutely no point in having a bricks and mortar shop unless you rely on passing trade. Anywhere that have enough modellers locally will have expensive rates, there is just not the customer density anymore. You don’t need the hassle, high rates, theft, customers breaking stock, time wasters who never buy anything, having to man it every working day. Selling online is much easier, yes to get the odd problem but the savings far outweighs the cost. You can ignore the timewasters and tire kickers who send endless emails asking for pictures because they seem to think Hornby or Bachmann made yours differently than ever other one.

 

As for marketing, why bother, you just go to where the customers already are and that is eBay, you can promote your items through there if you really want to waste money but at the end of the day everything sells, the cheaper an item is the faster it will sell, they all still sell. You can run it all from a spare room in your house and even offset that against tax. Risk is a lot less than the upfront cost of signing a lease and fitting out a shop. All you needs a phone or tablet, you can sit in the bar or coffee shop. You can still have a normal day time job and pack the stuff at night.

The secret of course is not to compete with everyone else, if you are selling the items no one else has or few other have then they sell themselves, you generally have to put very little effort into it. Skill of course is getting hold of rare items. An awful lot of models shops do sell on eBay, not always under their real names. Costs are a fraction of running a real world shop. Restricting yourself to selling in a small locality when you can advertise and sell worldwide for next to nothing. Its a no brainer.

Problem with this thread, most look at it only from the point of view of a buyer, many living in the past. Trying looking at it all from the side of the seller / retailer. Only reason most buyers want a real shop is to go in and poke and see and item and then go and buy it online where its cheaper. its cheaper online because the overheads of much less.

[Brew Man]

I wouldn't say items of eBay are necessarily cheaper than other shops - online or otherwise. I am very often seeing things there, even second hand that more costly than the item is new from a retailer.

[atom3624]

It's rare but possible you can 'get lucky' in an Ebay auction, and there aren't any serious interested parties, just speculators who pull out.

Fixed price, with the extra charges often incurred unless you get a good deal, there's little to gain. There is good buyer and seller support I must admit.

Al.