App based DC layout control by Hornby [with HM6000 / HM6010]

[96RAF]

What other details do you need apart from the box has some form of 1-amp power input, which it converts into two output channels. To use it you need the app within which you configure the box to do as you wish, be it control a single dusl track layout or a more complex mutli-loop layout. 

 

The connections are likely to be standard Hornby - a jack plug from a wall wart tranformer into the box and twin wires from sprung terminal connectors for each of two channels per box out to the track loops.

 

The comms are BT from the box to the app which is installed on whatever mobile device you choose and the box sends app commands to the track. Ditto multiple boxes and the accessory driver box.

 

There will be no manual for it as the blurb say it will be supported online with FAQs and a support page, etc.

 

The 2020 catalogue shows screen grabs from the various app pages so you can look at those and apply intuition.

 

It cannot be any more complex than that.

[Ashcat]

Having spent some more time looking at this I think it is ideal for a layout such as mine will be eventualy 😳end to end one main line, a branch line, sidings and having checked my layout plan eight individual isolated areas so four HM6000 I and nine sets of points so three HM6010 as it stands at the moment just hope they will be ok to power PM10 point motors as I have theses from my old layout  🤔

[96RAF]

The modules appear to be sensibly priced but in multiple use you have to factor in the possible additional cost of the PSUs. It is not clear if they are included or additional at cost. The blurb says you need them, but that is fairly obvious to most folk.

[Ashcat]

As you say not sure if PSUs are included I think probabley not at that price, if not I will probabley build my own one off unit then take isolated and fused supplys to each HM unit again all depenndant on cost, something you also have to factor in is the position of the units and a socket for each individual transformer if you go that route.

So still needs some thought.

[96RAF]

I believe there may be a ganging harness in the mix somewhere that will do what you are looking at - i.e. one PSU with multiple power outs.

[Artificer]

Learned members 

Does this mean that the if you are using existing HM DC controllers these will now be redundant if you adopt the HM6000 system?

Or is this new piece of technology just an additional interface to allow you to control using a tablet/ i phone?

Appreciatte this product  still under development but as they are shown on the Hornby website and available to pre order, the operating context must be known. 

A diagram showning the installation of the relative to a layout may explain all if available 

 

[Chrissaf]

The only thing I can say with any surety is that the HM6000 product will be a completely 'self contained' controller product and not an 'add-on' for any existing old controller technology.

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So yes if you go down the HM6000 route, then your old HM DC controllers go for recycling or put in emergency fall-back storage.

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HM is just a branding name owned by Hornby. The really old HM products were not designed and made by anyone involved with the new HM6000 product. Hornby could very well have just bought in the HM6000 technology from someone else and just branded it as an HM.

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The technology company I used to work for continually bought in products under license made by others, got the original manufacturer to use a custom case for it and put our company logo on it. It is a very common practice in the electronics industry.

[96RAF]

As the app based product runs a pair of loops per module then there is no reason why you cannot run another loop from an existing controller, you just won’t be able to control that loop from the app. The variable trackside is the same old DC 0-12volts, its just that the connection between the user control knob and the modules is now BT.

 

The usual rules apply if handing control from loop to loop in DC.

[Ashcat]

So continuing on I have laid out a couple of drawings as to how I belive the system would be applied to my own end to end layout currently under construction, Sections would need isolating from each other and you select a section via phone, ipad  the bluetooth this inturn this energise the chosen section / sections of track or points and so the loco will move off.

The first is the power HM600.  Second Points HM6010 (no common shown to keep it simple)

Ive also expanded the track for simplicity yellow section is intended to be connected

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[Chrise]

I cant wait for this to hit the shops I have 3 controllers on my track - shunting is getting complcated I also only have one set of automated points. 

[96RAF]

Suposedly due in the shops in July, but who knows given the current state of flux.

[mightyllama]

So, the dearth of conversation on this topic since May of last year suggests that no progress has been announced by Hornby since then. And the Hornby website still says this app-based control is "coming soon"!

Being a newcomer, may I ask those more experienced than I (and possibly with inside info from Hornby) whether this is likely to ever come to market, or should I splash out on DCC?

[96RAF]

There has definitely been progress made. Simon Kohler mentioned it on their recent live Q&A YT session.

 

See page 197 of the 2021 catalogue for latest info. There are also early demo videos of it on Hornby’s YT channel.

 

You can run 2 loops of track - isolated by IRJs -from each HM6000 - up to a max of 8 loops ((4 modules) per app installed device. If you need to run more than 8 loops then you simply get another iPad or phone and load up to another 4 modules on that.

 

You can operate 4 accessories per HM6010 module with a max of 3 modules per app. Again if you want more then you need to load the app onto another handheld device. Accessories can be solenoids (pulsed), signal lamps (red -green-off), continuous for street lights or building illumination (on-off) or one uprated port is dedicated for use to operate a turntable motor (on-off single direction).

 

It definitely works as advertised as I have tested it with DC locos and it will also run DCC locos if DC running is enabled. The app sends variable 0-12v to the track which the loco responds to just like they would to a regular DC controller.

 

It is expected to be in the shops by Easter according to the rumour mill.

 

HM | DC app Test track using iPad as the controller.

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Whether you decide to wait for this or go for DCC is up to you and your wallet.

 

[96RAF]

See also 2021 catalogue page 15 for iTraveller 6000 app controlled train set, which has a track module but will need extra kit purchased to make the point app operable.

No sign of the app in the apple store yet though.

[The Duke 71000]

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Control your layout from your mobile phone.

Certainly a number of Spanish layouts at the annual Lleida show (in March) have been using Bluetooth to operate DCC layouts at this show for the past couple of years.

 

However  I found that in all cases those using bluetooth to control locos suffered virtually constant problems. This I suspect was more due to interference inside an exhibition hall, when at least a half a dozen layouts with maybe 18-20 operators all using this system found that they were controlling someone elses loco elsewhere in the Hall. Chaos ensued as a result, which in Spain is of course par for the course........

 

The Duke 71000

[96RAF]

Something I noticed during testing. You get the app to scan for BLE devices and it picks up half the streets devices.

Having said that you only connect to those devices you select which of course are your modules.

Working thus the only interference I got was when sat too close to an all in one pc which was obviously radiating some dross that affected things or it could have been the powerline adaptor for the internet, which are known to be RF noosy. Goodness knows what will happen when the microwave goes on.

[Engine shed 1]

This sound a great idea however what I don't understand is that if announced for 2020 but now it's to be out in 2021 has there been problems with developing this

[96RAF]

@ES1

Just the normal Hornby slowly-slowly system. It was announced in 2020 with an indication of Q2 availability. Now it is in the 2021 launch catalogue with no indicator of when, but May is the iTraveller app controlled train set available date. The kit must be well into production if that is to be launched then. No particular development problems that I saw, thus possibly just a case of getting the app finished off and into the various stores for download and the modules off the boat into the delivery system.

[atom3624]

Don't you think there are enough Apps without adding yet another?

 

What's a telephone for anyway?

Imagine wife breaking down - fuel, puncture, accident even - and calls and you don't answer - busy slowing down the 10:45 safely prior to responding ... and causes an accident just waiting for you to respond!

 

Got to be a limit to this App-mania, surely?

'Phones are for calls, messages, and information transmission ... that's enough for me!

 

Al.

[Bexhill Donkey]

If you got the 2020 issue of the Hornby catalogue for £4.99, you are in a stronger position to make an assessment. The device, called HM6000 is featured on pages  208-209. There is no very detailed technical information, but there is an illustration of the hardware will look like which consists of HM6000 (BLE Unit) and HM6010 (PAC Unit)  The picture looks like a photograph, but it could be a computer-generated image. Two plastic housings are depicted, one, presumably the HM6000 is the size of a cigar box and the other, presumably the HM6010 ia the size of a fag packet. The HM6000 as illustrated has the same kind of wire trap connectors found on the Hornby eLink. From the size of these standard connectors in relation to the housing illustrated is possible to determine the size of the device.

This is one of those instances where you need to read the small print:

It says "Each BLE unit will require its own transformer. Four accessories or point motors may be attached to each PAC unit with the power being supplied by a separate wall transformer."

Jargon buster: "BLE" stands for "Bluetooth Low Energy", "PAC" stands for "Point and Accessories Controller"

 

Each R7292 BLE unit has two outlets (as with the eLink), so four units would be required to operate eight circuits. You can operate 8 circuits with one BLE unit, but only by manually switching circuits. Only two trains could operate at any one time with one BLE unit.

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[Forum-1211528]

It cost about the same as a Standard DC controller and could control more trains so I would say go for it, i Won’t because I use DCC though

[96RAF]

I can improve on Bexhill’s estimate with facts.

 

The HM6000 circuit board is 60mm L  x 55mm W x 30mm H (for leds). I don’t have a case but this will make the footprint a few mm larger. The two track feeds are hard wired to the board and the long leads terminate in a standard two-prong connector that fits a Power Track. Power is by way of the transformer shown. Output to the track(s) is 0-12v directional DC as sent by the App throttle.

 

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The HM6010 circuit board is 100mm L x 60mm W x 30mm H (for leds), similar to the size and layout of an R8247 PAD. The case will again make this a few mm larger. There is a standard jack plug for transformer power and a Track connection so the module can alternatively be DCC powered. The unit can operate solenoids (pulse), signal lamps (red-off-green), street lighting (on-off) and motor driven (on-off) accessories (hi-amp Ch 4 only). Typical motor driven accessories are Hornby Turntable, Elevator and Wagon Tipper.

 

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The PAC connectors are completely new and unlike anything used before. A tool (provided) is required to press in the cruciform spring retainer(s) allowing the wire(s) to be inserted and trapped. Wiring is as per R8247 convention with a common positive on C and switched negatives on A & B.

 

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Illustrations cropped from the associated user guides (not publicly available yet).

 

[IslandBoy]

Ah, the forum's back. Thanks to 96RAF for the heads-up. I'm seriously thinking of the HM6000 / HM6010 for my 2004 boxed set as fitting a DCC module to my loco (even if it were compatible) is beyond my eyesight & competence.

1. BTW it would really help if HM6000 / HM6010 were added to the thread title. I had to jump around a lot to find this as the main thread.
2. Given that the cost of a single lever or points switch is £12, to get 4 controlled ports for 1 HM6010 @ £30 seems a no-brainer. Have I understood correctly?
3. The DC outputs from my HM2000 (according to the plate underneath) are 17V and 18V. I wonder if these could be used to power the HM6000 / HM6010? Would save forking out for more PSUs...

[Chrissaf]

Done as requested. The new moderator tools make changing titles a lot easier compared to the old forum.

[DaveU]

Is there any news on actual release date for this. I have a DCC layout but am also building a small analogue 00 layout on a lightweight baseboard ( to sit underneath my main one) plus a small N guage portable layout, (also underneath) for when Grandkids eventually can visit! The HM 6000 sounds ideal for this! Also I have numerous power supplies of varying voltage and current, could I use one to power it?