Puffed Out Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I have read somewhere on the forum pages, regarding gradiants and Loco's capabilities of going up, but I can't find the thread. Is it 1inch in 36 inches, or 30mm in 1000mm.....or have got that entirely wrong.I have Loco's driven without tyres and with.(GWR Tank Engine, and the Flying Scots Tender driven). There are others with tyres, but the answers would be covered by these two.I guess those with tyres may perform better for grip, but they are slower than their modern counterparts. Could any of you experts clarify please, or point me to the thread I was looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 in 30 is the maximum recommended gradient. To climb 1 inch needs 30 inches or 1cm needs 30 cm. So to climb 2 inches will need 5 feet. Curves prefer even less of a slope. Remember if a train climbs up then goes along on the level it generally has to go back down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Just put gradient in the Search Forums box. You need to factor in a bit extra distance for the transition at bottom and top of the slope. You cant just suddenly go up at an angle or you risk lifting wheels off the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffed Out Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 @WTD.Thanks, I wasn't imagining things then. Yeah, the old Loco's seem to slow down quicker on the flat.I'll be making it less....1 in 20-25, when I add a bit more layout on another board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 No not 1 in 25 that is steeper than 1 in 30. You ideally want 1 in 40 or 60 etc. The longer it takes to climb the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I do have very steep gradient on my layout (about 1 in 5!), and few trains can make it up. If you want a realistic gradient then I recommend looking at gradients in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 in 5, good grief what is it, a ski slope? 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samfieldhouse Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 The (entirely non realistic) gradient on my layout is a rise of 8cm around curve 120cm long. Everything get's up fine, but it's probably not practical for running long trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 That's 1 in 15, very steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffed Out Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Sorry. Yes, I forgot my basic maths. 1 to 40....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Remember, the steeper the gradient the shorter the train. In real life there was a gradient of 1 in 14 on the Hopton Incline on the High Peak line oin Derbyshire. The locos would only pull two or three wagons and the driver would let the locomotive have a run at it. One way of dealing with inclines is to provide a banking engine to help push the train up the gradient. In steam days there would be up to four seperate engines to haul or push a train up the 1 in 30 gradient from Folkestone Harbour station to Folkestone Junction, including the famous Golden Arrow Pullman Express train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Way to go, is a Helix. I have one, its about 4 foot in diameter, with 7 loops. Climbs up 29 inches, with no trouble. All locos very content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Way to go, is a Helix. I have one, its about 4 foot in diameter, with 7 loops. Climbs up 29 inches, with no trouble. All locos very content. Lets try the big sums on that John.1 in 100 is 1%, 1 in 50 is 2%, 1 in 25 is 4%, etc.π * 48“ = 150“ circumference approx. Running distance will be less per coil. 7 coils = approx 1050” rising 29”. That works out about 1” rise every yard or 3.6% grade. If there are any surveyors on the forum I am open to correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffed Out Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 How do you support the coils. Is it something akin what Dick Strawbridge did in 2017. 'The Biggest Litle Railway in the World'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffed Out Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 How do you support the coils. Is it something akin to what Richard Strawbrdge did in 2017. The Biggest Little Railway in the World.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Puffed out, Hi, if i could post a photo, or knew how, i would. I built mine with threaded metal rods, and many nuts. I could email a photo to a fellow member/ mod, who i am sure could post it for me, if it would help. Moving forward, it does use a lot of track. Mine is double, all in flexi. Happy to discuss, if you want to have a go at making one. All loops in ply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 RAF, good maths, i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffed Out Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 If you look up The Biggest Little Railway in the World. for images, scroll through them, their coil is made of wood. I won't be doing a coil of any kind, but I admire the effort and ingenuity. https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Biggest+Little+Railway+in+the+World.&rlz=1C1JZAP_enIE883IE883&sxsrf=ALeKk034FjcwPAxa00J8FpPyAKdBJ_eZAg:1582716373203&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOudH5je_nAhWxtXEKHZwEBZUQ_AUoAXoECBoQAw&biw=1920&bih=969#imgrc=Owvy3WAaqAIAzM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Shame, they are great to build, look good, and solve the problem of gradients, beautifully.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 They only solve the gradient problem if it is not seen. If you want a gradient actually on the layout in the scenery it would look a bit daft, unless if course it was in a mountain as they are in the USA and Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I like the idea of the helix - adds another dimension and interest to a railway. Were I to 'design' a railway I may consider this, then give full access from behind, hide with a hill or 3 in front.I'd have something entering, then eventually something departing at a totally different level, perhaps over a viaduct after exiting 'the tunnel' (helix). Nice option. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 See the other thread, regarding model buildings, Yelrow has said he has built a model of Goat Canyon Trestle! Now that is a structure that would certainly do justice to the helix idea, I rather hope he will post a picture,here it has got to be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ard Lochan Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I have a helix on my layout made up of 3rd radius down and 4th radius up, parts of which can be seen on the `lets see your layouts thread`. I am currently covering it with a 9 lane roundhouse on a 5ft x 5ft board so it will soon be hidden from view but with access from the sides, I will post a pic when finished, Ard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Temporia Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 For a real UK helix, or part of one have a look at the Ffestiniog where they put a spiral in to climb up to the avoiding line when the hydro electric power station and reservoir at Tanygrisiau were constructed. If you want a train to climb a gradient better you need more powered wheels, all adding their bit to the frictional drive between the wheels and the railhead. Various types of EMU do this very well with multiple powered bogies (Think London Underground). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 @ Yelrow. Hi, if i could post a photo, or knew how, i would. Hello John. If you would like to follow this up, have a look at "Photos" in the Forum Search box. There are a couple of useful posts. Best to use a camera set at maximum 8-10 megapixels so that your photo is not too large and doesn't need resizing. Mpg format probably the easiest to handle. Hope this encourages you to post some photos as we know you have a large and interesting layout and a lot of locos. All the best. Jimbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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