Milk trains

[david_abramczyk]

So, alongside wanting to kitbash some of my old vans, I'm also thinking of getting some six-wheeled insulated tankers for a dedicated milk train on my layout, and the other day, I saw a video showing professionally exhibited layout, where one of the trains running around was indeed a milk train- made up of a brake van, a full length passenger brake, some CCT wagons and closed vans, and several milk tankers pulled by an LNER K3 mogul.

 

I'm gonna eyeball that as the right sort of train length, but since I don't have any actual milk tankers in my set, where would you suggest I look? And which liveries should I look to getting?

[LCDR]

All the milk tanks I ever saw were filthy. They used to sit in the plaform at Vauxhall (outside Waterloo) connected to pipes which took the milk into the arches under the station. If you listened carefully you could hear the clink of milk bottles under the station. So if you are modelling the 1950s / 1960s paint your tanks dirty grey!

 

The vans were for cream and milk in churns. Not everyone could receive milk in bulk, so a lot still travelled in milk churns.

 

Lima used to make milk tankers, and Hornby and Dapol also make them. There isn't one currently in the Hornby range but undoubtedly there will be second hand ones available.

[pd91223]

As a starting point try looking for Hornby R6378, R6379, R6404, R6404A, R6405, R6453, R6535 & R6991 all of which are tank wagons run by Milk/Dairy companies.

[LCDR]

You may find inspiration here.

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmilktanks

 

[Buz]

Hi david_abramczyk

Evil bay can be a good source for second hand "modern" Triang, Hornby, Dapol and other brands milk tankers its just a case of knowing which brand Dairy you want and who manufactured them.

Also find out and know what they should look like in good condition what a reasonable price for them is.

Note I believe milk tankers are passenger rated wagons as I have seen pictures of them attached to the rear and sometimes at the front of passenger trains so they don't just have to be part of an all milk train.

For instance I have some four wheel UD milk tankers by Triang and Hornby and a couple of six wheeler's for the same dairy not sure what brand for a bit of variety.

Keep an eye out for butter and egg vans as well not even sure any one makes those, but it was common for those to be delivered with the milk as well at one time.

No idea which part of the UK that UD serves or served as the case may be, but it made sense to me at least to stick to one dairy. the exception is a Hornby for the Aus market Peters Dairy hmm didn't know there was a county called New South Wales in the UK?? 😆

So be a bit careful milk tankers don't stray out of there area the real ones did not.as far as I am aware.

regards John

[Rana Temporia]

You might also find some of the Wrenn 6 wheel milk tanks (as I did for a silly low price) which are the ex-Hornby Dublo ones but with modern type couplings. Quite heavy but mine do run very well. 

 

Airfix did a covered van lettered for eggs which I always thought was a fantasy livery until I found a review (MRC I think) which had a photo of the original. 

 

There was an article about Milk Tanks in one of the model railway magazines a few years ago. The 4 wheel tanks were very old as the milk would slosh about producing butter in the tanks. The 6 wheel tanks rode much smoother and I think had baffles in them to stop the sloshing around. They were rated to run in passenger trains. 

 

The Leek and Manifold narrow gauge railway had carrier wagons to transport standard gauge wagons along the line. These included milk tankers to a dairy.  I have seen models of this line but don't think I've seen working transporter wagons. 

[joe_holmes1]

david_abramczyk

This link may be of help.

http://www.igg.org.uk/rail/7-fops/fo-milk.htm

It gives an outline history of the traffic, and also has illustrations of the various types of tanks and wagons used.

The United Dairies at Vauxhall had their creamery on the opposite side of the road from the station. The milk was pumped into the building via the pipework from the station above street level.

[Rana Temporia]

The Airfix wagon;https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=2ahUKEwj6mf_x5uLoAhXVVBUIHZJsAVcQFjAKegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fp%2F1660014119&usg=AOvVaw3RFf9jBRRAw1wCwfSEwtGc

[david_abramczyk]

It also occurs to me, even without milk tankers, I could probably bodge up a rake using some of the stock I already have; so far for this milk train I've assembled one Railroad "N.E." liveried closed van (out of the four I have), two ventilated vans from a competitor, a full-length passenger brake, one of my two LNER liveried CCT vans, and a brake van, to be hauled either by a D49/2, or a rebuilt "Claud Hamilton".

 

Is that enough vans, or do you all think I could add a couple more of the RR closed vans, or my other CCT to it?

[LCDR]

Milk trains were indeed often composed of vans for milk in churns, and most companies retained ventilated vehicles especially for this purpose, the air passing through the louvres as the train ran along helping to keep the milk cool. Many of these trains ran overnight when the air was cooler in any case. Your list of vans seems most appropriate.

 

Other appropriate vans include -

 

GWR Syphon G Bogie milk van (R6055, R6538) ex Airfix

GWR Syphon H Bogie milk van (R6054, R6539) ex Airfix

also Syphon G Bogie milk van (alternative version) ex Lima

LMSR 6 Wheel milk van (R671,  R734,  R6242 )

LMSR Bogie Parcels van, (R4233,   R4450,   R4237 )

SR Bogie Parcels Brake Van Van B, (R4535, R4536, R4586)

SR Four Wheel Parcels Brake Van Van C (R4301, R4340, R4340, R4347, R4306, R4467)

Also SR Covcar and PMV by Bachmann and Dapol.

All these will have adequate ventilation. 

Gangwayed full brakes (GWR, LNER, LMSR, BR) would also be used but more for parcels and mail because ventilation was poorer. 

 

The short 4 wheelers might be included but not really for milk. Other perishable goods would be included, such as butter and cheese, meat, fish, fruit and vegetables and of course newspapers, mail and parcels.These overnight trains were quite versatile.

 

Cattle trucks were also used for ale in casks again because the ventilation was excellent. 

 

Before 1948 the trains would be composed mostly of company owned vehicles but after 1948 the different company stock was mixed up, and in BR colours.

[david_abramczyk]

It's basically a question of what I can find; there aren't many model shops left in NZ, and the rate of exchanges for online shipping are borderline ruinous. And that's before you get into the fact that swapmeets have been dying out for years.

 

And on top of that, mainly for preference I'm wanting it to be pre-war LNER, as that's what I model; though, I suppose I can (albeit reluctantly) accept LMS stock too.

[LCDR]

Unfortunately the LNER is poorly served with suitable NPCCS vehicles, especially 4 wheelers. (NPCCS = Non-Passenger Carrying Coaching Stock) .

 

Peco Parkside have a kit for a long wheelbase Covered Carriage Truck (PC30) , and an Insulated Fish Van (PC57), neither of which are appropriate for milk traffic.

 

It is an area which certainly needs to be addressed.

[david_abramczyk]

Would you suggest anything to sort of 'bodge'/fake it? Maybe some LMS/Southern/GWR, or at a push, even early BR vans?

[LCDR]

The GW Syphons would make a bit of a bodge. The LNER tended to use 6 wheelers so the GW 6 wheel fish van or Palethorpes sausage vans (R670, R733, R6158, R6317, R6259) could be repainted into LNER livery at a pinch.

[david_abramczyk]

well, I was looking on Hattons' site, and they have a few marked up for IMS, which I'm guessing means "Independent Milk Suppliers" or something like that. Would they work?

[LCDR]

Yes they would do in the absence of proper LNER models. Strictly it is a LMS model, but they could have borrowed them.

 

The LNER (ex NER) 6w  Milk vans were in fact full brakes, sometimes  called BZs.

[david_abramczyk]

The annoying thing is, I looked a little earlier, and it seems that the LNER built seven six-wheeled tankers for Express Dairies to operate in East Anglia, so they'd be perfect; but that means going through Dapol.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Hello there, david_abramczyk.  😀

 

There is nothing wrong with Dapol tankers. As long as the Dapol tankers are OO gauge, then they will still couple to your other Hornby wagons. There is also nothing wrong with mix and matching locomotives and / or wagons from different model railway manufacturers, if this is what you are concerned about.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) 

[Fazy]

Though I model the LMR I've just bought 3 Dapol tankers and the old Hornby Six wheeler van, and to be honest on the layout they look fine to me. And work fine togethe. any of todays models are good, don't be put of other manufacturers today it's not the 1970's/80's 

[david_abramczyk]

Hello there, david_abramczyk.  😀

 

There is nothing wrong with Dapol tankers. As long as the Dapol tankers are OO gauge, then they will still couple to your other Hornby wagons. There is also nothing wrong with mix and matching locomotives and / or wagons from different model railway manufacturers, if this is what you are concerned about.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF) 

It's not the mixing and matching that bothers me; it's the £40 postage and packaging cost that Dapol slaps on top of it's online orders to places outside of Europe; three brand new milk tankers from them would cost me nearly $200; for just three wagons.

[NWR-Gordon-4]

Oh, I am sorry. I did not realise you live outside of the United Kingdom.

 

The higer postage cost, will be to pay for postage and for customs charges. These things are annoying, yes.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[david_abramczyk]

It's okay; usually it's more clear, since my normal forum user name has "NZ" (New Zealand) in it.