Securing track for layout stored against wall

[Split09]

So after 20 years of rearing kids and with pandemic cabin fever,I've finally got wife to agree to a permanent layout in our home. Layout in my parents home was Lima track packs A to C I think. Basically an elongated 8 with a passing loop and a few sidings, glued to ply. It was over 8' long I think. I still have all that track and more but this layout is going to be 6' X 4' with Hornby packs A-D and a few sidings. The room I've been given is the guest bedroom and there is to be no hinges or pulleys. She is to lean against the wall. I suspect battened ply will not be good for the constant moving...Is there a battening configuration that would offer better support?  The other issue is..Will I have to use screws or pins for a layout stored in such fashion?

[The Duke 71000]

Not advisable to screw or pin track to any layout, as pins & screws cause small dips in the track which affect current collection, particularly with steam locomotives. The best solution is to glue track to the baseboard using PVA woodwork glue. The non waterproof kind is best. (Evo-Stik in the green bottle). Further, using nails/screws/pins transmits the sound of the locomotive to the wood, causing a rumbling noise,& vibration.

 

If non-waterproof glue is used, you can always remove/lift the track at a later date by pouring a little warm water over it, & wait 5 mins. This re-solidifies the glue !!!

 

The Duke 71000.

[Split09]

Thank you!  So the PVA will hold the track whilst stored vertically?  What has me worried is the memory of just jamming a palette knife under the track on my old layout and the whole lot just sloughing off so easily.

[37lover]

Lots of folk pin their track and it does not cause trouble, the problems arise if the pins/nails are driven in too far. It just needs care when fixing.

 

 

Indeed, many of the problems with points can be solved by extra pins.

[Puffed Out]

I have screwed my track to the layout.  Screw it up, then back off a bit, so not to distort the track.  Hard to do that with track pins.

Glueing is too permanent, as you may need to change any damage, or re-jig the layout, if you need to.

How easy it to undo a few screws.?...........VERY EASY. 😆

 

Getting glue off the track, and whatever is stuck to it.?   A right pain in the ........ 😬

[96RAF]

If the board flexes then there is the danger of that equivalent peel off happening and the track breaking away. I would use Copydex latex or Evostick contact glue as it has flexibility. PVA is best suited to a permanent layout.

 

There is however no substitute for rigidity than a properly braced board and you will find a ply top of 9-12 mm with a minimum of 50 x 25 mm framing will make a satisfactory portable board, given obviously the thicker the wood used the heavier it will be to move.

 

Framing is generally called out at 60 cm centres so for your 6 x 4 ft layout space the battens at 2 ft intervals, hence a perimeter frame with a central spine and two sets of intermediate battens should do it.

 

Then there is the mode of support to consider - i.e. will it be laid on the floor or lifted onto a pair of trestle supports.

[Buz]

Hi Split09

Track pins by a multitude of suppliers and track screws by Flieschmann are readily available 1.5mm panel pins are another option but may require drilling or easing holes to suit.

For your situation pins or screw are probably the best option.

The Duke 71000 states pins and screws bend the sleepers they don't.

Heavy handed over zealous hammering or screw driving bends the sleepers.

Approaching track laying like a Neanderthal cave man, instead of with the thought and care it should be done is what wrecks the track.

Once the pin or screw is home there should be a teeny tiny gap and a very tiny bit of movement in the track.

If the sleeper is bending the pin or screw is way too tight, my late father and now me have used pins and track screws without problems, between the two of us that makes fifty years without problems.

Just take it slowly and carefully like all track work should be approached and you should not have any issues.

The track work should be tested  before final fixing a) to make sure it works the way you want it to, and b) to find any over looked or missed serious problems if your gluing the track that is not so easy to fix.

Your base board is going to be moved from time to time that's going to need a heavy 65mm  X 20 to 25mm frame with cross battens every 12" 300mm and angle bracing in the 4 corners it will be heavy construction and it has to be, you can get away with a sundeala top to help with the weight.

The frame will need to be screwed and glued construction with cross dowels for the screws to bite into on the end grain as that doesn't hold screws well.

Using sundeala I would suggest a three ply edge is glued and pinned around the sides of the frame to protect the edge of the sundeala board.

With sundeala you should be able to push rather than drive the pins in but don't push to hard remember the teeny tiny gap you need.

I would also suggest a nice neat paint job to give it a nice finish its in the house the domestic authorities like nice neat finishes.

It will also seal it from any scenic work with is invariably wet and messy.

You will also need to make solid folding trestles to sit the layout on.

I nearly forgot don't forget to drill a series 10mm holes in the cross battens to allow wiring to go through easily and holes for extra wire that may be added later for accessories or extras that get added later.

I would do a bit of research on a track plan, before settling on a Hornby plan there are plenty of nice small layout plans out there in books and on the net

On a 6 X 4 less is more it will look to crowded if every inch is covered by track.

You need to have minimum second radius curve so that the modern larger locomotives can be used NO R1's.

Unlike the old Triang trains the modern larger locomotives don't do R1 curves.

I wish I could remember where I saw it but it was a very nice small American HO scale layout that to put it away the layout pivoted up in its frame, which was also the mobile trolley and train storage cupboard.

The whole thing was very well thought out worked and still allowed for some scenic development to take place.

Folded up it could be pushed up against a wall out the way.

I think that should do for now your head is probably really spinning by now.

regards John

 

[Split09]

Thank you so much to all of you! I think I've got plenty of info and opinion from everyone to give this ago. Great bunch of folk.

[Split09]

Will let ye know how it goes.

[The Duke 71000]

Thank you!  So the PVA will hold the track whilst stored vertically?  What has me worried is the memory of just jamming a palette knife under the track on my old layout and the whole lot just sloughing off so easily.

 

 

The PVA is strong enough to hold the track, as you will see if you look at the many photos of my exhibition layout baseboards standing against walls, on my page "BASINGSTOKE 1958-67 87FT x 25FT" elsewhere in this General Discussion section.

 

 

Further if you intend to ballast your track this can also be done using a mix of PVA 30% to water 70%, and 3 drops of washing up liquid (to destroy surface tension). The glue water mix can be carefully dribbled over the ballast from something like an old washing up liquid bottle. The only necessity is that the type of ballast used must be either made of "fruit stone" or real stone, such as the English manufacturer "Green Scene" (of Worcester) or the American firm "Woodland scenics". These being professional types of ballast, and scatter materials available in a vast range of colours. 

 

Again the ballast can be removed later if you want to move the track, by soaking it all in a little warm water for about 5 mins. I then use a thin steel ruler to lift track and ballast, and then wash the track to get rid of the ballast remains. 

 

The Duke 71000 

 

[The Duke 71000]

Lots of folk pin their track and it does not cause trouble, the problems arise if the pins/nails are driven in too far. It just needs care when fixing.

Indeed, many of the problems with points can be solved by extra pins.

One of the first things you learn when building Club/exhibition layouts is that pins/nails/screws not only interfere with track laying perfection, and train operation, but also look unrealistic.

 

If you have trouble with points then I would recommend changing the track system you use, or better still save a fortune and build you own. Again no pins/nails/screws should be used anywhere near points, whether Hornby/Peco or handbuilt. As long as you don't get the PVA anywhere near the tiebar you should have no problems at all.

 

In any case why waste money on pins, nails or screws, when PVA is going to be needed in so many aspects of layout construction. Including baseboard construction, laying the cork track base (which improves haulage capacity by again deadening vibration); Scenery construction, and a host of other things......

 

Just have a look at the dozens of photographs of my latest exhibition layout under construction elsewhere in this General Discussion section under the heading "BASINGSTOKE 1958-67 87FT x 25ft". It might help !

 

The Duke 71000     

[walkingthedog]

Pins are not a problem at all unless you have soft underlay under the track. That can cause more problems than anything.  I have used pins for 60 years.  

[Split09]

Thank you all for your advice and experience. I have loads of ancient bags of various scatter and also ballast that looks suspiciously like Finch keepers grit. A couple of bags of ancient died moss or lichen that was so common in those days. Don't think much of it will be useful. Probably turn to dust when I open it. What was sad was having to sling the 1974 Hornby catalogue out. Rotten and stinking of must. I'll post as I progress. Ye could all probably do with a good laugh

[walkingthedog]

Each to his/her own 71000. Can't understand the problem with pins at all. I challenge you to find them on my layout.  😀

[37lover]

Each to his/her own 71000. Can't understand the problem with pins at all. I challenge you to find them on my layout.  😀

Glad to see you posting.

 

How else do you fill all those little holes in the sleepers if not with pins? 😇

[Buz]

I can't see how pins or screws can interfere with running, if they are in properly they don't bend the sleepers or stick up to catch anything.

You won't find the pins easily on my layout a dab of sleeper colored paint hides them if need be.

You could fill the holes with Track screws 😆

If you choose to use cork underlay don't forget to cut a strip out under the drive bar not a 100% necessary but can save point operation problems latter.

regards John

[96RAF]

Each to his/her own 71000. Can't understand the problem with pins at all. I challenge you to find them on my layout.  😀

 

You flogged it WTD.

[walkingthedog]

I did you're right. I meant on the new layout.  😆

[96RAF]

I did you're right. I meant on the new layout.  😆

 

You’ve a bit shy posting pictures of that and as its grown up 0 gauge I was looking forward to seeing the extra detail from your superb camera work.

[Yelrow]

Rob, plenty on tother forum.

[RDS]

I find that pins are essential in an extra position in the middle of points, a tip I learned from WTD many years ago and I am still finding the odd point that needs pinning.

 

@WTD, I agree with Rob - I have been looking forward to seeing pictures on here of your new layout.

[walkingthedog]

OK I'll post a few in a new thread.

[Jimbo1707820979]

The "pins" versus "no pins" sounds a bit like DC versus DCC !  Could go on forever. Good fun, though. 😆

[walkingthedog]

It's not that pins are any better than glue or that glue is any better than screws, what ever is your choice is fine, just makes me laugh when people try to say that one or the other causes bad running etc. If what ever method is used properly all will be well.  😆