Does Hornby have quality control issues?

[Zak Zak]

We recently bought our son a Hornby Flying Scotsman set for his birthday.

We ran the loco approximately twenty times around the layout before hearing a loud clunk and the loco derailed.

The valve gear on the left hand side had detached from the cylinder moulding, caught on the track and bent the connecting rod backwards.

The item is being returned immediately.

Our layout is correctly assembled and cleaned regularly with no track obstructions. My seven year old son doesn't use the layout unsupervised and the locomotive was properly stored inbetween uses and has not been mishandled in any way.

Unfortunatly, we bought a Hornby Mallard for our son at Christmas. After a couple of months of (again careful) use part of that loco's valve gear has come loose. This item is booked for repair with Hornby.

I don't believe we've been unlucky twice. Has anyone else suffered quality control problems?

Its ludicrous that I got my old locos that are forty odd years old out of the loft a couple of years ago, serviced them and they all prove to be ultra reliable.

 

[96RAF]

As a matter of course I always perform an acceptance check on any new item, which includes lubrication per the maintenance sheet, visual check of all static and moving parts and check tighten of all drive gear fasteners, then any recommended running in period.

 

In event of any serious fault then it obviously goes back. Minor problems are caught and rectified before they escalate.

 

It is not unknown for locos to leave the factory and for bits to then fall off, especially drive gear fasteners, which can lead to wrecked valve gear and motion rods, etc. A simple stitch in time saves nine approach can prevent disappointment especially where younger children are involved, who understandably do not appreciate quality control and warranty issues, etc.

[VESPA]

After spending 15 minutes answering this post and getting "Post saved" acknowledgement I got a Page 404 notice and no reply. Yes Hornby does have many QC problems and this website seems full of them.

[GWR 14xx Tank]

I have never had quality control issues from Hornby, the 92212 1:1 Collection locomotive I received a few days ago has been brilliant, one of my best performers yet.

 

I have purchased a range of brand new locomotives from Hornby and none of them have had any fault whatsoever.

 

Seems unlikely / nearly impossible, but maybe it is a coincidence.

 

Different people seem to have mixed experiences, fortunately mine have been good.

[walkingthedog]

Same here GWR. Considering the journey involved to  reach us it is a wonder they arrive in one piece at all.  I agree with Rob/RAF, a quick check for loose nuts, bolts and screws is always worth doing particularly if the locos are to be run at a fast speed, which mine never are. This should be done whe ever a loco is to be used. 

[Puffed Out]

Giving excuses for the less than perfect quality is a cop out.  Whether they travel 10 or 10,000 miles, and pieces loose from production isn't on. 

If a Loco, or any rolling stock can run for many hours without falling apart, then why should it shake to pieces when it's packed and 'protected'.

Do I, or anyone, inspect every single mechanical/electrical item that we buy.  I don't think so.  We have a look, then plug and play, until the time that they arrive broken, loose, damaged, then it becomes a case of 'buyer beware', which is tagged to a well known auction site.

Like they used to say.....'It's a friday afternoon job'. 

I do think though, that some of this is a result of the situation that the world is in at this difficult time.  The need to clear any back log or produce, puts pressure on production so that Hornby and other manufacturers/traders/retailers can stay in business.

So lets hope that the quailty is as near to 100% from the get go in the future.

 

I have purchased 3 new sets, and 5 new loco's, and three of the Loco's had problems that were easily fixed and remedied. 

But, someone who has no experience of owning, or fixing model trains wouldn't know about looking at the model with 'experienced ' eyes.

[walkingthedog]

Hey that was just my opinion, no need for a lecture. I'm afraid there is bound to be problems as the detail gets finer and finer.  😀

[Puffed Out]

I'm not lecturing anyone. 😀

And yes, if the details get finer and finer, the price goes up.  So the quality should match the price.

If they cannot guarantee the finer modelling falling apart, then the price should be a lot lower.

 

We all want a Rolls Royce for the price of a Ford, don't we. 😆

[The son of Triangman]

 

Since the move to China in 1997, quality control has been a bit mixed at times.  Hornby are by no means the only manufacturer with such problems from time to time, the Blue Box company has the odd QC issue now and then as do others making items overseas to cut costs.  Having a manufacturing base so far away from it's head office and main market presents many challenges not least of which is quality control.  As modellers demand more and more fine detail at as low as price as is possible such issues are bound to arise.

 

[atom3624]

Reading the opening post, and no disrespect, but how much experience do you have with model railways?

 

As has been mentioned, the amount of details added to 'modern models' is hugely more than perhaps 40 years ago.

 

I will often spend perhaps 2-5 minutes just asking myself how I'm going to remove a locomotive out of it's packaging, and how I'm going to hold it / transport it to the track, and subsequently place it on the rails - these were never considerations 45 years ago.

 

It's unusual to read of problems with the FS - one of the more-rugged of the recent models Hornby have.

Is it possible you may have lifted / transported it with fingers touching the coupling and connecting rods?

A slight deformation is all that's required to realign the rods, to clash.

A slight push on the valvegear could loosen a little, combined with a slight deformation causing a catch, which may dislodge the piston rods.

 

I agree, all of this 'movement' is really quite fragile and requires genuine attention.

 

Al.

[walkingthedog]

I'm not lecturing anyone. 😀

And yes, if the details get finer and finer, the price goes up.  So the quality should match the price.

If they cannot guarantee the finer modelling falling apart, then the price should be a lot lower.

 

We all want a Rolls Royce for the price of a Ford, don't we. 😆

That is the problem I agree. Fine detail is very nice but not at all practical. I don't have this problem any more dince I changed to 0 gauge. The fine bits are bigger.  

[The son of Triangman]

I agree gentlemen.  Valve gear on locos is like tissue paper on China made locos regardless of maker, main range or railroad style ranges. Breathe on it and it bends up.  UK made models were more robust as a rule, but had less fine detail.  Very careful handling is needed with today's models.

[Traincliff]

I think and hope the problems are down to our uncertain world just now. I have received I think 5 new locos in last 12 months and only 3 would run straight out of the box. One had to be returned via the dealer and the replacement was faulty so I bought the parts and self repaired - Hornby were unhelpful (not typical I might add). The other ran badly and intermittently and I located a loose coupling rod screw as cause which had been tight every time I checked it (yes it is possible surprisingly).

So yes they do have a quality problem but I think and hope it's temporary.

[ColinB]

I have wondered about Hornby's Q and A for a while and the more I read posts on this forum, the more I wonder. One the things you have to cost in when moving your production is whether you can afford the rejects and how you are going to support Q and A remotely. Remember Q & A is an added cost, which is a favorite to remove next cost cutting exercise. I watched a program where they were saying China accepts 10% failure rate, now with most small businesses that would put them out of business. I worked for a vehicle manufacturer and that would definitely not be acceptable. I mean we have had a whole batch of locos where they wired up the DCC wrongly where it would damage DCC decoders. Normally I can fix most small issues, but I feel for those people who cannot. My biggest worry is, I buy a loco check it works, run it for a couple of days, then use it later. From what someone is saying I could be sitting on a time bomb, where it just fails in the future and we know unlike Bachmann, it is not easy to get valve gear spare parts. The other thing that is very worrying, is quite often if you email Customer Services you don't get a reply, again not very good. On the other hand, do we just hear about the bad ones. 

[walkingthedog]

We only hear about the bad ones is very true. Of all the new 00 locos I purchased, well over 160 from most of the producers, only one didn't work straight out of the box, a J94, the gears didn't mesh, I had to put a spacer under one end of the motor.

All gone now except for four I kept to display for personal reasons.

 

Have got 10 new 0 gauge locos though, they all worked fine as well. 

[Wagonwheels]

Very interesting discussion. In general I agree with Puffed Out. There are no doubt understandable reasons why, because of detailing and commercial circumstances quality might suffer. However considering the prices paid I think any quality shortfalls totally unacceptable. Having to give a pre use check for an item that I might have paid £100+ sounds astounding to me. Very sensible I suppose, but astounding. 

I would suggest that Zak Zak uses his 40 (only 40?) year old models instead for his son's layout. Alternatively obtain Hornby Dublo/Wren examples that (track dimensions permitting) will run faultlessly (magnets permitting) for another 40 years  🤐

[Yelrow]

Hornby locos, compared with, Marklin, Trix, MTH, and Fleischmann, are very reasonably priced. Ree, locos,  are some £400 plus. In order to produce them cheaper, something has to give. People in europe and america, pay  these higher prices,  content in the fact that the quality, and build, is excellent.. Producing in china, has kept prices down, but subjecting models to weeks of sea travel, will, mean, the odd damaged box, etc.  I am sure the quality, could be increased, but, so would the selling price, and we moan now about the price of these new locos..  Fortunately, in my case, i have actually no need to buy any more locos, having probably far too many, already, but, must say, that i have never received any damaged ones. The rider, is that the last new one i bought, was some 4 years ago.  If the quality, has slipped,  which, i personally, doubt, people would have voted with their feet, and as can be seen from Pre orders, business, this is not the case.

[VESPA]

Hornby do have quality issues. I ordered direct from Hornby a couple of years back 2 different Britannias. Both were faulty and no replacements were available. One had bent valve gear in the box before I touched it and the other a missing whistle. No spare whistles available anywhere so I made do with an A4 whistle which looks reasonable but I know it's not correct. Several other items have also had faults and either returned or fixed rather than spend money sending them back. It is also how many retailers in mail order make it awkward at times when sending things back. The very worst item I wanted perfect was not Hornby but Oxford Rail, the Bosche Buster gun. I sent one back and then went to Hattons where they brought out 6 for me to look at. Everyone had faults. All Chinese made so the QC on that model was NIL. I have learned over several years that China made goods are more likely to be poor quality and we only have ourselves to blame for wanting something on the cheap. Now however at some £180 a loco and £60 a coach I expect the item to be perfect and repairable with a range of parts. An istance here was a British made cleaner we bought and the belt snapped. The makers supplied all spares for it via the post by return and at sensible prices (out of warranty) of 60p so I got 5 to make it worthwhile. The upside being we still have 4 after 3 years. Names related to quality are no longer to be trusted as being good. I bought a VW Passat in 2009 brand new with 8 delivery miles. It had a damaged wheel, rust under the bonnet, badly fitted scuttle plate, non working boot light, badly fitting splash cover under the wheel arch. Then 2 years later oil leaks and faulty light clusters, three times. The dealers were also rubbish and then the front wheel bearing was rumbling at 16000 miles. So much for the myth of German quality. I had a Rover before that and only had one fault after 10 years which was an easy DIY fix. So the message here is don't expect anything perfect from China and don't go by brand names being good because they are not.

[ColinB]

@Yelrow if you do a look at Sams's trains, he does a calculation of whether a loco is more expensive now than it was say 10 years ago. The detailed versions are about 20% more expensive taking into account inflation. Now probably their market has fallen so they are not shifting the numbers, so perhaps that is why they are more expensive, but they are definitely not cheaper. They are also cheapen down models by removing lights etc, but charge the same price as say a model with lights (eg class 66 loco). Take a Bachmann class 66 apart and compare it with the Hornby.The latest Flying Scotsman is nearly £200, so for that price you should expect a quality product. Secondly you are not comparing like with like, the expensive products you mention are completely different in build and quality. The reason pre-orders are high is that Hornby limit numbers, so people order them in case they cannot get their chosen loco. I know in my case that is what I do, though I must admit when Rails cancelled all my Hornby pre-orders, I had a review and figured there were only two that I really needed (I think initially there were  originally 10). There again with the pre-orders, one of those locos had been on pre-order for nearly two years, so long, that I am beginning to wonder if I really need it, especially as it is just a repaint of an existing model. I am sure I am not the only one that thinks like this. 

[Yelrow]

Colin, that was exactly my point, and thank you for confirming it,. There is a  big difference in build quality, and for that, you must pay.. I looked at sams  trains once, and that was enough for me..

[ColinB]

Yes, but on the £200 Flying Scotsman you should expect no issues, but I bet there are. As for Sam's Trains, I really like his reviews. A lot of the locos he reviews I have and generally he is right about the analysis. Just recently he reviewed some Hornby coaches and basically his review stated that really they were just the 1980's version but repainted with newer wheels. The opinion I got was that they should have been released as Railroad versions, but I think we know why they weren't. Anyway the good news for me was I just bought the 80's version second hand and changed the wheels, I saved a fortune. There again it takes all sorts.

[atom3624]

I like Sam's Trains as well.

State the obvious, but he is making solo observations and protraying his opinions - it is always possible to 'miss something' occasionally.

 

If there's something which is critical, I would look for other reviews as well to compare prior to making the purchase.

 

Al.

[Yelrow]

I agree, that you should not expect to have to fiddle  with or mend a new Hornby loco,   However, you have the choice to buy another make, not made in china.. This, however, comes at a cost. Its a tad like anything you buy. Indesit washing machine, where you get a mass produced item, or a Mielle, where you know its going to be quality. The sams train video i watched, showed him unpacking a loco, and i simply got bored.. I am a died in the wool, Hornby  guy, but my love is Hornby Dublo, where quality,  was excellent, happen you could lift the loco.

[The Duke 71000]

I have a large collection of locomotives for my exhibition layout, "Basingstoke 1958-67 87ft x 25ft" (Found elsewhere in this General Discussion section) many of which are Hornby items. I have not experienced anything as serious as valve gear coming adrift, on any my locos.

 

It must be stated that the valve gear MUST NOT BE TOUCHED AT ALL when handling steam loco models. Locomotives such as Flying Scotsman & Mallard should be picked up using BOTH hands, one for the loco and the other for the tender. Fingers should not be allowed to come in contact with the valve gear, as the slightest pressure will bend these fragile precision parts. If just slightly bent they are likely to then snag & jam up, the next time the loco moves on the track !!!

 

As a professional modeller I can say that I have found that 1 in 3 new Hornby steam locomotives do seem to have minor assembly faults. These most typically relate to the 4 wires passing under the cab on their way to the tender. One or more of these wires is often damaged because it has been pinched during assembly. If passing through a slot in the metal chassis, then a short is likely to occur sooner rather than later !  

 

It should be restated, that Hornby's modern range of locomotives are now genuine models not the "toys" of old ! This fact has caught a lot of modellers out, as these modern hi-tech models have by necessity to be very fragile. Due to the much refined parts required, to become the highly accurate models they now are. GREAT CARE when handling is therefore unavoidable if you want to keep your beuatiful modern models in pristine condition. Good Model shops should be able to repair damage inflicted by unwary hands !!!!

 

The Duke 71000     

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[VESPA]

@yelrow

I remember all the HORNBY DUBLO locos all had a tested tag attached somewhere. Find a QC tag on new Hornby. Both of us like Dublo items and to be fair much of it still survives to this day with Dapol still churning out many of the wagons in various guises for around £12. I still buy those if I want to make up a certain goods set as they are just as good as other items cost £20 for very similar. They are also made in Wales.