Hush Hush

[DarkRedCape]

ColinB - Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but would one of the Princess Royals be the R3999 loco?

[ColinB]

@Dark Red Cape I have two of them , I will check. I also did some more testing on the W1. Ok my track is not even around some of the points, mainly where I have double slips, at anything above 30% setting with 4 coaches no problem, below that I actually had the loco with all 6 wheels spinning not going anywhere. The only other locos that have this issue with my layout are the Oxford Radial and some of my old Ringfield based tender driven ones, which I sold this week. Generally all my A4s, Duchess (with improved front bogie) and Princess Royals don't have an issue. It is because the front bogie's travel is wrong.

It looks like R3999 is the later version Hornby released, I have R3854 and R3711, I noticed R3999 is the same price as the W1, needless to say I paid substantially less for my ones.

Looking at the W1, the hanger for the front bogie looks to be solid, whereas on the Duchess, Princess and A3/A4 the bogie is supported on a metal arm that can be adjusted slightly. Not that I have tried but it doesn't look like you can do this with the W1. It should have its height reduced by about 3mm, that would allow the bogie to move up.

I like the loco so I am not sending it back, but it is worth knowing these things.

[dh2807]

My "Hush Hush" also had broken bits and it sounds awful even after some considerable running time. It's going back.

[DarkRedCape]

Would this new loco be made in the same factory as all the other Hornby locos? If so, it seems odd to me that the same people who build the rest of Hornbys fleet would have such a hit and miss record with the HH.

[ColinB]

Another interesting fact that none of the reviewers have commented on is the DCC socket. On most of the newer Hornby locos I have bought they have the X9084T pcb, on the W1 they have used the older version. The advantage of the later T version is that it has a double sided pcb with plated through holes which means soldering is much easier and quicker as the pcb is better quality, but on the W1 it is the much older one where it is harder to solder to and much easier to solder tracks between the 8 pin socket pads. Is it because the T version is more expensive or was it because the production firm had a load left over from a previous job? I notice from my electronics background and I am generally making sure that the pcb is wired correctly before putting a decoder in. If you are going to use an 8 pin socket then the least you could do, is use a decent one.

[DarkRedCape]

I don’t know if such links are allowed here, I apologise if they aren’t, but this might answer a few questions as to why peoples packages are arriving so damaged.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/exposed-the-hermes-delivery-staff-throwing-your-parcels-against-the-wall-rckzwbxc7

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hermes-delivery-driver-filmed-launching-22958206

https://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2021/10/07/hermes-driver-suspended-after-being-filmed-tossing-parcels-into-van/

This kind of behaviour is disgraceful and it’s why I will avoid Hermes as much as possible.

[ColinB]

We all know about Hermes, it is general knowledge. If you are going to send something via Hermes, usually because you want to save some money, you need to pack it really well and assume that it will get thrown against a brick wall. Sam's video shows packing by Derails, you could probably throw that at a wall and it would survive. Funny all the excess packaging probably negates your postage savings. Hornby are to blame for outsourcing the job to a firm that seems to know nothing about packing. Interestingly I notice more of the "on line" stores are reverting to Royal Mail so that must say something. From Hornby's point of view that was a very expensive mistake. Any other model you replace the smoke deflectors or tender base, but on this one the smoke deflectors are the body, the tender is unique. As has been stated many times Hornby generally only makes enough parts for the production run, hence why you can never buy spare bodies, so I really do wonder how they are going to resolve the situation.

[DarkRedCape]

ColinB - This bit always confuses me a bit. You say they only make limited production runs, but the moulds and the presses have already been made, so the ability to make additional runs is always a possibility, as destroying the moulds after the run makes no sense.

So the lack of spares or additional runs is a business decision, not a lack of ability to do so.

[maw78]

I was queueing up at my local shop next to where the area is where you can print labels off etc to post stuff via Hermes, there was a guide for wrapping parcels ( which hermes themselves had put up ) and one of the instructions was "Dont put fragile tape on your parcel - please make sure you package it correctly" !!

[ColinB]

@DarkRedCape I know that they have the moulds to make many as after a wait of a couple of years they reproduce the same model with a few changes. The big issue is they do not control production, so they will have to schedule a remake of those bodies. The production facility may not easily be able to fit that into the schedule, then there is the point "who owns the moulds" Hornby have been on a cost reduction trip just lately so they may not. It is not a case of popping next door and getting a guy to make you 50 replacements, it is purchase orders, production schedules, shipping from China. Not an easy task especially when you have several customers that want their model fixed now.

[The son of Triangman]

Hornby apparently have spare bodies and are repairing the models. Sadly overseas production isn't always the best answer. ColinB has nailed it, The factory at Margate is an empty shell, Hornby only rent their bit and no longer own the factory. They use the old offices, a bit of storage for the archives, some R&D space and test layout space, visitor centre, but that's it at Margate, they do of course have a small warehouse elsewhere for the products coming from China, the Margate factory warehouse now houses full size locomotives. The rest is in Chinese factories

[ColinB]

Hornby also has an issue with the front bogie on this model, there is no enough travel. When I looked at mine I thought what is Sam on about, there is about 6 mm of travel, then I noticed the travel is below the level of the front wheels. So when the loco is on the track the travel is at the end stop. Ok if you have completely level track, but even if you have there are always points that have slightly raised bits. Mine has been known to get stuck with all wheels running. I looked at the mounting point for the bogie thinking I will bend it up, sadly it looks to be a moulded plastic piece which I suppose you could do something with but I am not brave enough. Fortunately, I doubt many of these locos will see a real layout so I suppose lucky for Hornby. I fix a lot of my locos generally adding springs to front bogies to stop them derailing, one of the first things I check is that the travel on the vertical motion is not pushing the front wheel off the track, don't they.

[dh2807]

I was in my local model shop yesterday discussing the issues with my Hush Hush and the dealer stated that of his 5 allocated Hush Hush locomotives he had received, 4 were faulty. If other dealers have similar ratios of faulty locomotives then Hornby have a major problem.

I have just watched the review by Sam's Trains on YouTube and the problems he had are identical to the issues with the Hush Hush I have now returned to Hornby.

[ColinB]

Thanks dh2807 that was interesting, if you read the reviews on the web other than Sam's they think it is wonderful. Mind you, having watched many of the other reviews by these same people, I do wonder if they really know what they are doing. Mine is fine other than the travel on the front bogie, which looking at it suggests it can't be fixed easily. If it was a £70.00 second hand one I might be tempted but not on a £200+ one.

[atom3624]

It does appear much 'saving face' is required by Hornby on this model.

There's the issue of the courier fiasco with the direct purchases - open apology would have gone a long way, or even some private messages to all recognised as having suffered that fate.

The other is the inconsistent performance - the 'too low' front bogie lifting traction weight off the drivers / misaligned drawbar are common issues I've had with 'used new' locomotives, purchased off a certain site - the ones said to be new, of a model 10 years old. I would not expect that kind of issue to persevere with new tooling, £200+ locomotives.

Were those steps really that proud, or should more consideration for a 'finer scale compromise' be made, considering many modellers model their platforms to have a near-prototypical distance to rolling stock, for example?

Al.

[The son of Triangman]

I seldom look at Sam's trains, his stunts in the Hornby program lost all credibility in my eyes. The steps appear to be correct dimensions. As for issues with the unrebuilt W1, someone on another forum has found another issue, his loco has stripped the gears.

I think Hornby needs to look at their packaging very carefully, QC and courier they use as well.

[ColinB]

After watching the Hornby program especially the episode about Winston Churchill's funeral wagon, you do wonder if everything is being designed just to meet the requirements of someone in the model railway press. Simon did mention which magazine but I must admit I didn't listen much.

[ColinB]

You really have worried me with that report of the loco stripping gears.

[DarkRedCape]

How does a loco strip it’s gears? From what I’ve learned the amount of friction on the rails would just make the wheels spin before a gear stripped. Wouldn’t something have to be quite seriously wrong with the motor and gearing for it to strip the gear?

[atom3624]

Normally its poor gear meshing - motor mount bolts loosened / stripped / MAZAK rot.

Al.

[ColinB]

It is probably the same fault Sam had with his one, he figured something was wrong and immediately tried to fix it. If you were someone that just runs the locos ( which you should with a new one out of the box) then if something is sticking in the mechanism then something has to give. It probably made one of the gears free wheel on its axle rather than

stripping them. Although on the late locos they use a lot thinner and smaller gears so they could just strip. The effect is the same. It would interesting to know the failure rate. The Chinese accept 10% as normal, plus whatever Hermes damaged, so how many of these did Hornby make?

[ColinB]

It is probably the same fault Sam had with his one, he figured something was wrong and immediately tried to fix it. If you were someone that just runs the locos ( which you should with a new one out of the box) then if something is sticking in the mechanism then something has to give. It probably made one of the gears free wheel on its axle rather than

stripping them. Although on the late locos they use a lot thinner and smaller gears so they could just strip. The effect is the same. It would interesting to know the failure rate. The Chinese accept 10% as normal, plus whatever Hermes damaged, so how many of these did Hornby make?

[Simmo009]

RMWeb up to 46 pages on this subject now. Bit of a pr disaster unfortunately. Pity, because they look absolutely stunning.

[ColinB]

Hopefully if there is some sense in that company, they will have rectified things by the time the rebuilt version or the P2 come out. They did eventually sort out the Thompson A2 the later versions being a lot better than the earlier ones. The big issue is and will always be, that they have no control over their production.

[JimJimJames]

Mine arrived undamaged from TMC via Royal Mail. It runs ok as well. I can't see how the ice cube packaging can cause damage, it doesn't touch the areas that people are reporting damaged. I nearly didn't buy one because I hate those flangeless wheels but I can hardly see them when it's on the track. I think the colour and paint finish are superb and the details are very good. It's not the quietest loco I have but it's not run in yet.