JonMountfort Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 The range launch video by Hornby Magazine and also a number of dealer websites state that the new Black 5 with smoke is also sound fitted as standard. The Hornby website blurb says it is DCC Ready. Who is right? I suspect this is not sound fitted for the price it is listed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 There is a degree of confusion over what level this loco is at when bought. There are a number of comments/articles and they all appear to say something slightly different.Key Publishing who produce Hornby Magazine, yesterday produced a video showing all of the new Hornby 2022 products. The video had Mike Wild and Mark Chivers who regularly appear in the magazine (Mike Wild is the Edititor) - they said this model comes complete with working lamps, firebox flicker, sound and steam - straight out of the box - nothing to add. I'm not saying they are correct, but until someone "roadtests" the loco we will not really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 You can tell by the price, I suspect it doesn't, it is not expensive enough. If it was another £40 to £50 then I would say yes. I also am wondering how they are going to get a 21 pin DCC socket into the loco, it has to be in the loco to do the control, unless they are going to add a couple of extra wires to the 4 way connector. Of course if it does come with sound that has got to be a bargain, but I fear not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Fairly clear to me. R number has an SS code = steam and sound.This quote from the product page . . .Product InfoThe ‘Black 5’, one of Stanier’s finest and certainly one of Hornby’s. Using the very latest state of the art design and manufacturing techniques, this totally new Hornby model not only includes a flickering firebox and lit lamp codes but also sound. Alongside the included steam generator, this Black 5 is also brand new tooling, making it a must-have for any collector or those looking to take a step into model railway steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Well in that case, that has got to be a bargain. Glad I preordered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Well in that case, that has got to be a bargain. Glad I preordered one. Likewisegrinning In the video they said it was the most advanced loco that Hornby had ever produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo009 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 But, will it be TTS type sound or full fat, or are they improving TTS? Will the speaker be as TTS currently, or something better (please)? Sugarcubes are not expensive and smaller / better than what has been provided with current TTS. Will the lamps be movable to match what you are pulling? It says Era 5, but the picture has the early emblem, not the late Crest.I almost pre-ordered, but there are too many unknowns for me. Sorely tempted though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Initially I assumed it didn't come with sound. If you take the maximum RRP of present Black Five, add cost of steam generator + sound (about £50) it is good value. Interesting to see if it stays at that and Hornby honour the preordered price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 The TV series showed that the speakers were being improved and given a bespoke enclosure, so you have to presume TTS has made progress at the same time, given the TV series also mentioned HiFi sound. Certainly there is room for improvement as well as more functionality in a 21-pin decoder.Moveable lights on a steamer - unlikely due to the fragile wiring unless Hornby have developed micro sockets on minuscule lamps that are capable of being unplugged and hung on other pre-wired brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westernwill Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 But the Product description also says.Link the new and unique Hornby steam generator with the latest Hornby DCC sound decoder for a realistic experience to add to your model railway scene.Very confusing.But despite that I have also pre-ordered and I expect Hornby will clarify the position soon.Link the new and unique Hornby steam generator with the latest Hornby DCC sound decoder for a realistic experience to add to your model railway scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Initially I assumed it didn't come with sound. If you take the maximum RRP of present Black Five, add cost of steam generator + sound (about £50) it is good value. Interesting to see if it stays at that and Hornby honour the preordered price. They always have in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo009 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Thanks 96RAF. In my opinion, with lights and sound fitted, and 21pin dcc, this does seem to be a reasonable price level when compared to the current dcc ready only version without. But it is still a gamble to my mind when these features haven't been reviewed in detail by independent third parties.If the lights were moveable, that would be spectacular. Maybe hardwiring the lamp irons and the lamps work on contact could work? With LED's the voltage wouldn't need to be much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 The 21 pin doesn't give you anyone (other than pins and functions) than an 8 pin decoder, it is whether they have improved the core software so that the "chuffs" are in sync. Most of us put a decent speaker on TTS anyway, so the speaker shouldn't make much difference. I think they will have difficulty fitting a 21 pin socket in their locos, in the tender not an issue, but in the loco. Even Bachmann doesn't do that, there is not enough width to lie it flat. I suppose you could put it vertically somewhere. We will wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmo009 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 In for a penny, in for a pound (or 250 of them), pre-ordered to be sure. With the time frame, if they hold the launch price, should there be another price increase, this may be the best way to ensure getting one, and possibly end up the cheapest. Many things crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CORKY. Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I must admit to be rather taken by the Black Five and looked for a couple of videos and found an over long one from Hornby that promised details, trouble was half the steam visuals were lost behind the trees it travelled behind, and half the sound was overlaid with music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 This gets weirder and weirder, I was reading either the latest Hornby Magazine or the catalogue (I was reading both last night) and in there it says the 21 pin decoder is in the tender. So explain to me how you control the smoke unit and firebox glow (which is supposedly controllable) when they are in the loco. Currently the only way to do is to have a function decoder in the loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I would be very pleasantly surprised if Hornby finally get the exhaust beat / chuff in sync. with the wheel rotation ...Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupiter 1707822591 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 @ColinBThis gets weirder and weirder, I was reading either the latest Hornby Magazine or the catalogue (I was reading both last night) and in there it says the 21 pin decoder is in the tender.............. Where does the motor live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 @ColinBThis gets weirder and weirder, I was reading either the latest Hornby Magazine or the catalogue (I was reading both last night) and in there it says the 21 pin decoder is in the tender............. Its obvious that the loco will require a suitable decoder to be fully functional and my guess would be that it would be located in the tender in line with Hornby’s current design philosophy. That would also keep it well away from the water reservoir for the steam unit which would clearly require space near the generator unit.The only real change would be additional wires or a new coupling between loco and tender - I suspect it will be the wire method, maybe with a new plug with more than four pins.Regarding synchronization of steam, sound and wheel rotation, it’s been done before - Dapol Black Label A4s had minute fans built into the smoke unit that had their speed regulated by the decoder. The whole unit is smaller than the top joint of my thumb so was a straightforward fit in the smokebox.My guess on the setup would be 21 pin decoder + speaker in the tender, new plug/socket, smaller or reshaped ballast weights in the loco, combined steam generator and reservoir under the chimney possibly with a fan to generate ‘puffs’.But until the models are released, it’s all just speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 It is also described as "the most advanced" locomotive that Hornby has ever made. So I expect the technology may have moved on a little from what everyone has experienced in the past. We shall have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 It is also described as "the most advanced" locomotive that Hornby has ever made. So I expect the technology may have moved on a little from what everyone has experienced in the past. We shall have to wait and see. Correct - the loco has steam, lighting effects, some have a metal body, etc and the new decoder spec (sound and non sound) is a big step forward from R8249/TTS. I have one on test, but you shall have to wait and see.@steve - the TV series showed the steamer with extra wires twixt loco and tender, and one would assume the loco PCB would handle all the power associated functionality with the 21-pin decoder on board the loco. That would keep the loco-tender drawbar plug at four wires - two for tender pickups to the loco and two for speaker to the tender.The steam generator will in my mind be a self contained module containing the water bucket, ultrasonic exciter unit and the decoder controlled electronics. The bespoke bit of each generator module will be the unique shaped module to fit individual loco types, with the chuffing electronics calibrated against the decoder.We await the diesel clag version (dirty water?). A dual motored Deltic at full chat with twin exhaust smoke would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 @96RAF as you have one on test, I presume you also have access to a screwdriver?You give a big clue in your comments - with a metal body they can ditch the ballast weight and free up a lot of space for all the additional gubbins. And yes, the likelihood is the housing for water/generator would likely be unique for each loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 @SteveI only have a sound decoder on test, along with a draft user manual for the decoders, but not a steam generator equipped loco, much as I would like one. I have seen one running though and it was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler999 Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 Just need them to be available now, Last communication I had with Hornby recently said the actual launch was delayed until Nov 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted December 3, 2022 Share Posted December 3, 2022 So November 2023, really equates to Summer 2024. I thought initially in the catalogue they marketed one without steam and the DCC sound, the other had it all. I ordered one as it seemed good value for money but who knows when we will ever see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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